Floyd just lost a fan.

I got Pac in the late 30's or early 40's on my list in my head...I got Floyd in the mid 40's...I wouldn't put either in my top 20 ATG... Thinking about it a little bit more, maybe 30-35 is more suitable for Floyd. If Manny beats Cotto at Welterweight, I think you could make a strong argument for top 20'ish.

Ok, maybe not "twice the ability" of Pacquiao, but I do believe it's pretty evident that of the two, Floyd is the better fighter. I would also have Floyd somewhere in the 20-30 area on my hypothetical ATG list. Manny could crack the top 20 in his next fight. I got Pac in the late 30's or early 40's on my list in my head...I got Floyd in the mid 40's...I wouldn't put either in my top 20 ATG...

Ok, maybe not "twice the ability" of Pacquiao, but I do believe it's pretty evident that of the two, Floyd is the better fighter. I would also have Floyd somewhere in the 20-30 area on my hypothetical ATG list. Manny could crack the top 20 in his next fight. To get in my top 25 (my top tier) you have to have some claim on being the greatest, Manny is not there yet even if he smashes Cotto, but he definetly moves beyond my second tier onto the cusp of top tier (26-30ish). If he beats Floyd then he is there (top tier). I think Floyd is the better of the two also, but I just view them as very close as they currently stand (so if they are close now and Manny gets a big win against Cotto obviously he moves clearly ahead). Even if Floyd smashes JMM, I would still have Manny ahead at that point but it would narrow the gap slightly. I just hope we get to find out who the better man is head to head.

I consider them about equal, when Manny beats Cotto like I think he will (regardless of what wieght the fight is contested at) then it would be clear and beyond dispute (to me anyways). I think Manny gets to much credit for certain things, but he deserves his accolades and that case can certainly be made. I consider both Manny an Floyd second tier ATG level (30 to 80 or so), with a victory over Cotto I still would not put Manny into the top tier but he would move into my grey area inbetween tiers Ok, maybe not "twice the ability" of Pacquiao, but I do believe it's pretty evident that of the two, Floyd is the better fighter. I would also have Floyd somewhere in the 20-30 area on my hypothetical ATG list. Manny could crack the top 20 in his next fight.

Yea, I can't see him beating everyone, that's for sure. Especially since he's had trouble with a slew of fighters. He looks smooth but he lacks 2 things. Workrate and punching power. All of his opponent's on paper don't have anything to beat him with, which is why i think he has a carefully chosen career. this post is absolute bullshit and spoken within the context of what a casual fan would say. There was nothing "careful" about that guys career, they threw his ass into the fire and he prevailed. Floyd in all honesty does not lack punching power, accuracy trumps power, and accuracy is what happened to 26 individuals who thought otherwise.

I hope you're right. Who knows he might reignite the fan within me again, if he did what I believe he is capable of doing. What pisses me off is the fact that I can no longer say with a straight face, that he is the best of this era. As of now, Manny Pacquiao currently holds that title (i really don't think it's disputable, either), yet I truly believe Floyd Mayweather is twice the fighter Pacquiao is, in terms of overall ability. Remember this, what happens in boxing is whats fresh in your mind, in the historical context of things, pacs victories will look a certain way and so will floyds. Also, the real story surrounding the context of floyds career will definately be revealed. Its patience that allows me to view these things in the way i view them. Its not so much me or you, in the years we have been on here, have blindly followed him, its just that when he was fresh in our minds, and fighting it was easy to know how great he was. We havent seen him, and the marquez fight is a gauge to where he is. Often times when fights happen, our opinions change. Think about if he looks great against marquez, a guy that pac struggled with, thats what will improve the buildup of the fight. If pac gets passed cotto, the battle for the true champ of the last decade will be solidified, and if cotto wins i wouldnt doubt that floyd will fight him. Just remember this. The fights that people demanded floyd to fight, he fought. Baldomir, Judah, De La Hoya, Hatton. Keep in mind, after he fought hatton, he took a break for the first time ever, i mean, EVER. Now people are questioning his legacy . I think hes sincerely back, alot of people here are always like "ill believe floyd when he does it" but historically, the only fighter he never had any intention of fighting was margarito. Hes back at this point, and i sincerely beileve that cotto, mosley and pac are all in his sight. And you remember when cotto and mosley wanted nothing to do with him in previous years, but its acceptable because they have likeable personalities. But in a historical context, when people demanded he fight someone, he did it.

Yeah but Reed... I agree to a point. How do we know how skillful he is if his quality of opposition is poor? Yea, I can't see him beating everyone, that's for sure. Especially since he's had trouble with a slew of fighters. He looks smooth but he lacks 2 things. Workrate and punching power. All of his opponent's on paper don't have anything to beat him with, which is why i think he has a carefully chosen career.

I hope you're right. Who knows he might reignite the fan within me again, if he did what I believe he is capable of doing. What pisses me off is the fact that I can no longer say with a straight face, that he is the best of this era. As of now, Manny Pacquiao currently holds that title (i really don't think it's disputable, either), yet I truly believe Floyd Mayweather is twice the fighter Pacquiao is, in terms of overall ability. I consider them about equal, when Manny beats Cotto like I think he will (regardless of what wieght the fight is contested at) then it would be clear and beyond dispute (to me anyways). I think Manny gets to much credit for certain things, but he deserves his accolades and that case can certainly be made. I consider both Manny an Floyd second tier ATG level (30 to 80 or so), with a victory over Cotto I still would not put Manny into the top tier but he would move into my grey area inbetween tiers

If not for my overall patience with fighters, and my historical knowledge within the sport, i too would feel as you do, however patience is always the name of the game in boxing, while i am a fan of his and always will be, i understand how you feel. You have been on here awhile and like myself, know his career extensively, nowadays its less about defending him and more about seeing what hell do after this fight with marquez, im willing to give him until the end of next year before i feel his career has the brakes on them, i dont blame you for your feelings, but again, im just willing to be patient, i have a tendecy to sit on guys for awhile, even when i cant stand their additude , history tells me everyone has downsides in their career and right now i feel thats where floyd is. I hope you're right. Who knows he might reignite the fan within me again, if he did what I believe he is capable of doing. What pisses me off is the fact that I can no longer say with a straight face, that he is the best of this era. As of now, Manny Pacquiao currently holds that title (i really don't think it's disputable, either), yet I truly believe Floyd Mayweather is twice the fighter Pacquiao is, in terms of overall ability.

all this character crap is an excuse to project your own weaknesses off on floyd. Interesting. I didn't like Hitler's character, he was a complete cunt. Does that mean I'm projecting my own weaknesses onto Adolf? i hope you nikka's that are dissing him don't jump ship once he destroys pac and cotto, and throw in mosely for good measure. What are you gonna say if he loses. Will you jump ship? 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

If not for my overall patience with fighters, and my historical knowledge within the sport, i too would feel as you do, however patience is always the name of the game in boxing, while i am a fan of his and always will be, i understand how you feel. You have been on here awhile and like myself, know his career extensively, nowadays its less about defending him and more about seeing what hell do after this fight with marquez, im willing to give him until the end of next year before i feel his career has the brakes on them, i dont blame you for your feelings, but again, im just willing to be patient, i have a tendecy to sit on guys for awhile, even when i cant stand their additude , history tells me everyone has downsides in their career and right now i feel thats where floyd is.

At least some of them are original. Not to me, they are all the same as transparent as glass. Floyd is neither clever or original though, when you have to go to the "prison rape" bag of tricks to talk shit to someone it shows how limited his thought process is when it comes to talking. It is painfully obvious when you watch him talk that he has to think about every little thing that he says. It is hard for me to really judge him harshly on that level though, I am educated and devoted my life to being smarter, he devoted his life to the sweet science. I enjoy watching him fight and winning money on him, although I must admit I am starting to look to bet against him in the near future because I think he is going to lose in the near future (in 3 fights tops).

As many as you know, I was a huge Floyd Mayweather fan since I joined this board a while back. I have advocated and defended him in countless discussions, and most of the time, justifiably so. No, it's not because of he postponed the Marquez fight, or that he chose to fight Marquez instead of another Welterweight. Yes, I do agree that his choices should at times be scrutinized (most of it still unwarranted and exaggerated). I will always appreciate his raw talent and the purist boxer within him. It's his, in my opinion, limitless potential, that will probably keep me rooting for him, during his next few fights, depending. What changed is: I guess, I just really don't care enough about his career anymore. My admiration has faded, not to mention I have always despised the pseudo-gangster persona of his. Intellectually, it's almost embarrassing at times, and articulately, he can be described as "awkward" at best. Both happen to be qualities I admire. Floyd Mayweather has always benefited from excellent management and has recently made the right career decisions for Floyd Mayweather, justifiably so. I do not judge someone for doing what they believe to be in their best interest. I will personally not criticize him for chasing the biggest paydays and for his sudden retirements, which have apparently done wonders for his bankroll. From a fan of the sport's perspective, however, I have been left 'blue-balled' far too often (particulars are unimportant). Although I've always been a fan of the sport first, and tried to remain objective, I think this is a 'evolutionary step' in my boxing 'fan hood', as it will invite new ways of thinking and analyzing. Boxing is doing great. 2008 was a fantastic year, and it's looking like 2009 will be even better. Unfortunately, I had to do the same.. I feel the same way. I used to get so hyped up to see Mayweather fight but now days I just seem to focus more on his antics and his assumption that he carries boxing on his shoulders. This is clearly not the case as people (boxing fans) get excited to watch most any fight they can catch on the TV or the web. i just wish he would get back to taking on whoever wants to fight and stop doing whatever it is he is doing. The public obviously sees through the smokescreen and probably feel the same way- just get back in the ring, quit the jabber-jawing, and let your skills do the talking (against the guys in your weight class) :smashfrea

Floyd is just not a good talker, so whatever way he is trying to come across he sounds fake and forced. He can not make a valid arguement for himself because any point he tries to make is all over the place. I realized long ago what he says in meaningless. All athletes or celebrities that try to have a persona are equally as fake, some are just better at fooling the public then others. At least some of them are original.

When I was watching his calmer interviews he came off extremely fake to me... like he was TRYING to be normal...lol Floyd is just not a good talker, so whatever way he is trying to come across he sounds fake and forced. He can not make a valid arguement for himself because any point he tries to make is all over the place. I realized long ago what he says in meaningless. All athletes or celebrities that try to have a persona are equally as fake, some are just better at fooling the public then others.

floyds accomplishments as a boxer pales in comparison to his skills and talents. Probably. Floyd is good enough to become Middleweight champ, if he really wanted to.

floyds accomplishments as a boxer pales in comparison to his skills and talents.

I am a fan of floyds skills I am not a woamn all this character crap is an excuse to project your own weaknesses off on floyd. he is a fighter most who criticize him are not, I enjoy watching him fight always have and always will. i hope you nikka's that are dissing him don't jump ship once he destroys pac and cotto, and throw in mosely for good measure. Respecting someone for being humble doesn't make you a woman... :nonono:

For me he comes off extremely fake when he's throwin money around and runnin his mouth. Floyd speaks without thinking if there's too many cameras around... When he's relaxed I take his words a little more seriously... Spacey read my mind lol Well I am P4P the best on this forum! :D I get what you mean though really... :fing02: