OLD 80s WW VS NEW 00s WW

I'm getting really confused by people seeing things that were never there in these guys careers, during their fights, against people who were better. Leonard no power? Ok. You also said you think Mosley breaks Leonard with his power? Now, I really have no idea what you're talking about with this one. The 'Duran can't take Cotto's body shots' was weird enough but where does this come from? In what fight did you see something that made you think that Mosley, of all people, would break Leonard down? When was Leonard ever nearly broken down? At WW Mosley eats that jab all night long and never even gets close to hurting him with anything. You've got to be slicker than Mosley to get to Leonard enough to hurt him. You also need to be able to slip a jab or use your own to negate his and Mosley does neither. Watch their fights first. The thing is, mosley gets frustrated easily. Mosley closes his eyes when he throws big right hands and would DEFINATELY be frustrated by the workrate, speed and constant taunting by leonrd. I dont see how mosley would ever catch up to leonard, Mosley has a chin, but he doesnt have this devastating ability at WW. His notable knockouts came against guys who were stationary (vargas/margarito). If we are talking leonard at welterweight i see mosley being very frustrated, Leonard might get hit, but he would be returning with 3-4 punch combinations, i see mosley losing a 15rd UD. This sh!t about Duran is bananas. Duran faced off against the greatest welters that generation saw, including a move up to fight Marvin Hagler. You are telling me that duran "couldnt take it to the body"? What the fukk, are we forgetting the mans nickname "the hands of stone". Judah, Margarito, Corley, Malignaggi and Torress have all sent cotto into a tailspin. Will someone explain to me, how he is going to stand up to duran who is known for droppin cats at the drop of a hat. Cotto would have to setup that body attack by absorbing some vicious uppercuts and right hands. Duran would also stand in front of you and use evasive manuvers to dish out more punshiment. You have to be a fukkin moron to think cotto sets up some vicious body attack, survives durans best shots, and knocks him out, get the fukk outta here.

I do agree that Shane's speed is on par with Leonards. I'm not gonna argue that. But go back and watch the Forest and Winky fights, fights where Shane was in his prime and at his best. Shane leads with hooks and is open up the middle all day. The jab used by Winky, and especially Forest, neutralized Mosley's speed because right before shane was about to start up...both of those guys fired quick jabs, and that completley disrupted Shane from starting up with his combinations. If Vernon and Winky's jab did that, imagine what Leonard (who has one of the best jabs the division has ever seen) does. Also Shane does have the power to knock out Leonard, but with Leonards side to side movement, Shane would need an effective jab to close the gap, come in and set up his money shots(which are the hooks to the body/head and right hand). Shane has never had that and I would be surprised if he was able to set up any of his punches the whole fight. The more I think about it the more I think this sh!t would look like B-hop vs Pavlik, where one boxers timing is completely disrupted and completely out-boxed. I see what your saying and it could definitley go that route (In my opinion it would be a rematch where this scenerio takes place) Ray was so sure about his speed and reflexes when fighting other not so gifted fighters that it would throw him for a loop seeing a fighter like Shane for the first time. I thnk Shane's loss to Winky was because he was fighting way too heavy. Vernon Forest was his Achilles heel for sure but he never was KO'd by any of them. Shane shines when he is the underdog as well. Good points, bro.

COTTO VS DURAN- Duran has too much fire and tenacity to be stopped at Welter by Miguel... (prime vs prime) Cotto will give it all he has but he'll find that Roberto just won't stop and he will win by UD (in a 12rounder) or 13th round stoppage by old standards. SUGAR MOSLEY VS SUGAR RAY LEONARD- I actually think a prime Shane gives Leonard all he can handle. Mosley is quick and a lot stronger than most people give him credit for. Ray wouldn't be able to hurt Shane and since there wouldn't be much difference speed wise I think Shane takes this one. Where Thomas Hearns fell short Shane would shine. 11th round stoppage for the second sugar Mosley. P DUB VS HITMAN HEARNS- Hitman was very accurate and difficult to fight. Paul's height might make it look close at first until Thomas finds the range and catches Williams with his devastating right cross at the beginging of the 8th. Win by KO for the Original Hitman Hearns. MAYWEATHER VS WHITAKER- Chess match with the master defensive fighter only leads to a check mate Unanimous Decision by Sweet Pea. I do agree that Shane's speed is on par with Leonards. I'm not gonna argue that. But go back and watch the Forest and Winky fights, fights where Shane was in his prime and at his best. Shane leads with hooks and is open up the middle all day. The jab used by Winky, and especially Forest, neutralized Mosley's speed because right before shane was about to start up...both of those guys fired quick jabs, and that completley disrupted Shane from starting up with his combinations. If Vernon and Winky's jab did that, imagine what Leonard (who has one of the best jabs the division has ever seen) does. Also Shane does have the power to knock out Leonard, but with Leonards side to side movement, Shane would need an effective jab to close the gap, come in and set up his money shots(which are the hooks to the body/head and right hand). Shane has never had that and I would be surprised if he was able to set up any of his punches the whole fight. The more I think about it the more I think this sh!t would look like B-hop vs Pavlik, where one boxers timing is completely disrupted and completely out-boxed.

I agree with the adaptability point in your argument. Thats why I think if they rematched Sugar Ray Leonard would win it by UD. But I think the first time around he will somewhat confuse Ray with his combo of strenght and speed. I still disagree with Shane beating him, but good to hear a different opinion, bud.

Leonard didn't seem too frustrated not being able to hurt Hagler or Duran the second time. Shane's speed would be a big factor, but I don't think his hands at welterweight are quicker than Leonard's. As a poster had mentioned, Leonard was highly adaptable, Shane is not. I agree with the adaptability point in your argument. Thats why I think if they rematched Sugar Ray Leonard would win it by UD. But I think the first time around he will somewhat confuse Ray with his combo of strenght and speed.

At 147 Mosley is too much of a one punch fighter to beat SRL. If Mosley had brought his fighting style at lower weights with him I mightve agreed. SRL steals every round(even tho hes probably winning anyway) with 13 punch combos at the end of the round. Ray was great but if he had trouble with an aggressive Duran the first time around.. Sugar Shane's speed > Duran's IMO. He can give Ray some fits. He couldn't just come in and out whenever he wanted .. ala the second Duran fight. Shane is smart enough to time him coming in and when they exchange Shane could land his share of blows and throw off Leonard. Leonard could land his own as well but to say he is gonna cruise to a UD .. nah I don't see it happening.

Leonard was great, I'm not taking anything away from him but in my opinion Ray never faced anyone that came close to his own speed. The closest he got was Terry Norris. Shane has the speed to cut off the ring and the timing to catch Ray coming in. Ray would get frustrated with not being able to hurt Shane. Ray loved coming in and throwing flashy combos and getting out, IMO he couldn't do that with Shane because he is quick enough to land his own and throw Leonards game plan off. It would be a great fight to see for sure but this fight would be a loss for Ray Leonard. Leonard didn't seem too frustrated not being able to hurt Hagler or Duran the second time. Shane's speed would be a big factor, but I don't think his hands at welterweight are quicker than Leonard's. As a poster had mentioned, Leonard was highly adaptable, Shane is not.

Okay if you are serious: I don't see how Mosley beats or even stops Leonard. Leonard would give to much movement and could easily keep Mosley at bay with his jab. Shane would want to fight to much and Leonard is too smart for him. Hearns was beating Leonard because of his boxing ability and height & reach advantage, Shane doesn't have those advantages or skills. With that said, I think Mosley could fight competitively, but Leonard UD's him. Leonard was great, I'm not taking anything away from him but in my opinion Ray never faced anyone that came close to his own speed. The closest he got was Terry Norris. Shane has the speed to cut off the ring and the timing to catch Ray coming in. Ray would get frustrated with not being able to hurt Shane. Ray loved coming in and throwing flashy combos and getting out, IMO he couldn't do that with Shane because he is quick enough to land his own and throw Leonards game plan off. It would be a great fight to see for sure but this fight would be a loss for Ray Leonard.

COTTO VS DURAN- Duran has too much fire and tenacity to be stopped at Welter by Miguel... (prime vs prime) Cotto will give it all he has but he'll find that Roberto just won't stop and he will win by UD (in a 12rounder) or 13th round stoppage by old standards. SUGAR MOSLEY VS SUGAR RAY LEONARD- I actually think a prime Shane gives Leonard all he can handle. Mosley is quick and a lot stronger than most people give him credit for. Ray wouldn't be able to hurt Shane and since there wouldn't be much difference speed wise I think Shane takes this one. Where Thomas Hearns fell short Shane would shine. 11th round stoppage for the second sugar Mosley. P DUB VS HITMAN HEARNS- Hitman was very accurate and difficult to fight. Paul's height might make it look close at first until Thomas finds the range and catches Williams with his devastating right cross at the beginging of the 8th. Win by KO for the Original Hitman Hearns. MAYWEATHER VS WHITAKER- Chess match with the master defensive fighter only leads to a check mate Unanimous Decision by Sweet Pea. At 147 Mosley is too much of a one punch fighter to beat SRL. If Mosley had brought his fighting style at lower weights with him I mightve agreed. SRL steals every round(even tho hes probably winning anyway) with 13 punch combos at the end of the round.

Some people really forget how good, how fast, how powerful, how smart and how adaptable Leonard was at his best.

COTTO VS DURAN- Duran has too much fire and tenacity to be stopped at Welter by Miguel... (prime vs prime) Cotto will give it all he has but he'll find that Roberto just won't stop and he will win by UD (in a 12rounder) or 13th round stoppage by old standards. SUGAR MOSLEY VS SUGAR RAY LEONARD- I actually think a prime Shane gives Leonard all he can handle. Mosley is quick and a lot stronger than most people give him credit for. Ray wouldn't be able to hurt Shane and since there wouldn't be much difference speed wise I think Shane takes this one. Where Thomas Hearns fell short Shane would shine. 11th round stoppage for the second sugar Mosley. P DUB VS HITMAN HEARNS- Hitman was very accurate and difficult to fight. Paul's height might make it look close at first until Thomas finds the range and catches Williams with his devastating right cross at the beginging of the 8th. Win by KO for the Original Hitman Hearns. MAYWEATHER VS WHITAKER- Chess match with the master defensive fighter only leads to a check mate Unanimous Decision by Sweet Pea. Okay if you are serious: I don't see how Mosley beats or even stops Leonard. Leonard would give to much movement and could easily keep Mosley at bay with his jab. Shane would want to fight to much and Leonard is too smart for him. Hearns was beating Leonard because of his boxing ability and height & reach advantage, Shane doesn't have those advantages or skills. With that said, I think Mosley could fight competitively, but Leonard UD's him.

Oops, sorry then. No big deal, I dont blame you. Ive been reading comments like that all over this thread. At first I was laughin now Im startin to get sad. It would just hurt my pride if someone thought I wa that ignorant about boxing.

COTTO VS DURAN- Duran has too much fire and tenacity to be stopped at Welter by Miguel... (prime vs prime) Cotto will give it all he has but he'll find that Roberto just won't stop and he will win by UD (in a 12rounder) or 13th round stoppage by old standards. SUGAR MOSLEY VS SUGAR RAY LEONARD- I actually think a prime Shane gives Leonard all he can handle. Mosley is quick and a lot stronger than most people give him credit for. Ray wouldn't be able to hurt Shane and since there wouldn't be much difference speed wise I think Shane takes this one. Where Thomas Hearns fell short Shane would shine. 11th round stoppage for the second sugar Mosley. P DUB VS HITMAN HEARNS- Hitman was very accurate and difficult to fight. Paul's height might make it look close at first until Thomas finds the range and catches Williams with his devastating right cross at the beginging of the 8th. Win by KO for the Original Hitman Hearns. MAYWEATHER VS WHITAKER- Chess match with the master defensive fighter only leads to a check mate Unanimous Decision by Sweet Pea.

Read my other posts on this thread. I was completely sarcastic. If Tommys power doesnt break a WW he cant be broken. Oops, sorry then.

I'm not quite sure this group could best the 90's welters, let alone the 80's. I was actually thinking the same thing. All these odd things that keep popping up, like Williams boxing better than Tommy, Duran not taking body shots and slowing down at the end of a fight or Leonard being broken down by power. :dunno: I can't figure out where these thoughts came from? Which fight did someone see these things in because sure as hell haven't seen Williams box great, nor Duran hurt from body shots and wilting at the end of a fight nor Leonard ever even hurt really badly, let alone being broken down. Whatever you think of Leonard, the one thing no one can argue is that he is not one of the toughest SOB's to ever fight. He had one hell of a chin and the heart to go along with it.

lol, go back to the drawing board. Hearn's power > Mosley's power. The old champs beat all the current welterweights. Read my other posts on this thread. I was completely sarcastic. If Tommys power doesnt break a WW he cant be broken.

Of course Mosley breaks SRL with his power SRL could barely handle Hearns power. lol, go back to the drawing board. Hearn's power > Mosley's power. The old champs beat all the current welterweights.

I'm getting really confused by people seeing things that were never there in these guys careers, during their fights, against people who were better. Leonard no power? Ok. You also said you think Mosley breaks Leonard with his power? Now, I really have no idea what you're talking about with this one. The 'Duran can't take Cotto's body shots' was weird enough but where does this come from? In what fight did you see something that made you think that Mosley, of all people, would break Leonard down? When was Leonard ever nearly broken down? At WW Mosley eats that jab all night long and never even gets close to hurting him with anything. You've got to be slicker than Mosley to get to Leonard enough to hurt him. You also need to be able to slip a jab or use your own to negate his and Mosley does neither. Watch their fights first. Of course Mosley breaks SRL with his power SRL could barely handle Hearns power.

I'm not quite sure this group could best the 90's welters, let alone the 80's. donald curry wipes the floor with all the welterweights today...

Mosley-Leonard p4p I think Mosley would win. He has something that Leonard didn't have... power. Leonard has speed and evasiveness but Mosley in his prime was the same exact way. I'm getting really confused by people seeing things that were never there in these guys careers, during their fights, against people who were better. Leonard no power? Ok. You also said you think Mosley breaks Leonard with his power? Now, I really have no idea what you're talking about with this one. The 'Duran can't take Cotto's body shots' was weird enough but where does this come from? In what fight did you see something that made you think that Mosley, of all people, would break Leonard down? When was Leonard ever nearly broken down? At WW Mosley eats that jab all night long and never even gets close to hurting him with anything. You've got to be slicker than Mosley to get to Leonard enough to hurt him. You also need to be able to slip a jab or use your own to negate his and Mosley does neither. Watch their fights first.