Mayweather vs. Pavlik or JMM vs. Mayweather. Equally (un)fair?

Making a guy move up 2 weight divisions is just the same of you yourself going up 2 divisions. Isnt common sense being taught in ur schools? That post you referred to, as well as several others in this thread, is based on what has now been proven to be a misconception namely that Floyd isn't really a welter. Even the most obnoxious floydstans should acknowledge that now.

Bump!.......................

Then why not fight at 140 if he's at a disadvantage at welter? And I think it was a bitchy move giving me red and calling me an idiot instead of just arguing your case. as you can tell, I argued my point, and effectively, as you gave me red karma as a result of it. I gave you red k because with this thread and your posts you have proven you are ignorant and know little about the sport of boxing, yet parade your opinions as though they are facts. Dont take it personal, kid. Ill give red k to anyone who foolishly makes comparisons between Marquez v Mayweather and Mayweather v Pavlik.

I didn't know that they had agreed on 143. I'm not entirely updated however as the last I read was either 144 or 145. Are you sure? To me you are a WW if you weigh in without breaking the 147 barrier. Both Hearns and Leonard did despite a very visible sizedifference. Please give me your honest opinion as to what weight you think it would be fair to stage the JMM-PBF fight at. By fair I mean in such a way that both fighters fight at a weight they are equally uncomfortable. That's what was said at the press conference last week, but then they said it was not sure, anyways 143 is the latest number we have I think. I don't know. We don't know because we never saw Marquez fighting someone 5lbs heavier than him, or Mayweather going down in weight. In general I am against fighters going down in weight. It is ALWAYS bad for them, not just in the single fight, but for the remainder of their careers/ I said it many times about this fight. The size difference is small, ppl bitching about it ridiculous. Especially wen you consider what happened in the 40s -50s with fighters 10lbs (and more) apart fighting each other day in day out. But one thing is sad, and I really dislike: the fact that p4p#2 can be used as a tune up. Mayweather makes more money than by fighting a bigger lesser man, which is what a tune up usually is. Marquez makes more money than in any other fight available to him. So they are both doing what's best for them. It is the system which is flawed.

What was their weight at birth? Analogy flawed. Don't be ridiculous...

well to BE fair, JMM called the guy out, surely he had to know what the consequences are especially awknowledging that floyd was the "true" number one fighter, when you give that much ground, your only going to give more, not to mention dude has been out of the ring for awhile, i dont expect him to throw himself to the fire like that. regardless, floyd is a small dude and it was evident at the press conference, and a fight against jmm at ANY weight at ANY point in his career would be the same damn story. Any fighter would call out another if there was a potential to earn millions. Plenty of welters has called out Floyd over the years as well. The fact that JMM called floyd out does not IMO make the fight more competitive or fair in a sporting sense.

Yeah. Maybe he has grown into 147 and really cannot make 140. Thatjust underlines the unfairness towards JMM and exposes Floyd for avoiding a real WW. well to BE fair, JMM called the guy out, surely he had to know what the consequences are especially awknowledging that floyd was the "true" number one fighter, when you give that much ground, your only going to give more, not to mention dude has been out of the ring for awhile, i dont expect him to throw himself to the fire like that. regardless, floyd is a small dude and it was evident at the press conference, and a fight against jmm at ANY weight at ANY point in his career would be the same damn story.

when that was going on, nobody wanted to fight him, as crazy as that sounds, from 04-05 when tszyu was injured, cotto was "green" and hatton eventually beat tszyu and admitted he wasnt ready to face him, there was really nothing he could do, he could have sat at that weight, i sincerely think the only reason he moved up was to fight judah, the only perceived threat to him at the time. he probably sits at 147 because he might have actually grown into the frame after sitting there for so long. and at 32 he may not be able to go down to 140, i dont give a fukk what others say or excuses they may have i really think this is the real reason. i dont think he had any intention of sitting at welter, but when everyone moved up there, including hatton, coupled with de la hoya at 154, i think he basically had to sit up there. i mean, nobody cared when i was asking why erik morales and pac cant have a fight at 135 when roach and his camp were forcing the issue with making him come in at 130 knowing hed struggle with the weight. its called getting an advantage, its a tactic i dont always enjoy ,but its apart of the sport, the difference is that floyd had to basically sacrafice like that his whole career, now he has the oppurtunity to do it to someone else who is calling him out, granted its not cotto or any other perceived threat, i can honestly get over that after saying hed fight 3x a year. Yeah. Maybe he has grown into 147 and really cannot make 140. Thatjust underlines the unfairness towards JMM and exposes Floyd for avoiding a real WW.

At what weight did PBF start his career? What about Pavlik? Analogy is flawed. What was their weight at birth? Analogy flawed.

Then why not fight at 140 if he's at a disadvantage at welter? when that was going on, nobody wanted to fight him, as crazy as that sounds, from 04-05 when tszyu was injured, cotto was "green" and hatton eventually beat tszyu and admitted he wasnt ready to face him, there was really nothing he could do, he could have sat at that weight, i sincerely think the only reason he moved up was to fight judah, the only perceived threat to him at the time. he probably sits at 147 because he might have actually grown into the frame after sitting there for so long. and at 32 he may not be able to go down to 140, i dont give a fukk what others say or excuses they may have i really think this is the real reason. i dont think he had any intention of sitting at welter, but when everyone moved up there, including hatton, coupled with de la hoya at 154, i think he basically had to sit up there. i mean, nobody cared when i was asking why erik morales and pac cant have a fight at 135 when roach and his camp were forcing the issue with making him come in at 130 knowing hed struggle with the weight. its called getting an advantage, its a tactic i dont always enjoy ,but its apart of the sport, the difference is that floyd had to basically sacrafice like that his whole career, now he has the oppurtunity to do it to someone else who is calling him out, granted its not cotto or any other perceived threat, i can honestly get over that after saying hed fight 3x a year.

1) this fight is happening at 143. hence the catchweight should be what I suggest. None of the welters I mentioned coule healthily make 143, hence what I mean by a small welter. I thought you would have noticed the difference between Mayweather and Williams. Seems I was wrong. b) if you don't want to deal the concept of small welter, you should definitely spare us the 134.5 stuff no? I didn't know that they had agreed on 143. I'm not entirely updated however as the last I read was either 144 or 145. Are you sure? To me you are a WW if you weigh in without breaking the 147 barrier. Both Hearns and Leonard did despite a very visible sizedifference. Please give me your honest opinion as to what weight you think it would be fair to stage the JMM-PBF fight at. By fair I mean in such a way that both fighters fight at a weight they are equally uncomfortable.

Please explain why Floyd is not a welter? If he's not a welter why then fight a lightweight at WW? Why not 140 or below? The concept of a small welter falls on deaf ears on me, unless you want to argue that we should have even more divisons. I cannot see the point in how much a particular fighter has moved up. Usually fighters gain weight over the course of a career. JMM has just grown into (or really just moved up to) LW so surely it's a huge step to move up 2 divisions. And it's not 8 pounds. JMM weighed 134½ last time so it'll be 10 pounds. PBF was a 147 last time so he'll move up 11. Sounds pretty equal to me. 1) this fight is happening at 143. hence the catchweight should be what I suggest. None of the welters I mentioned coule healthily make 143, hence what I mean by a small welter. I thought you would have noticed the difference between Mayweather and Williams. Seems I was wrong. b) if you don't want to deal the concept of small welter, you should definitely spare us the 134.5 stuff no?

Hey Floyd. Darchinyan is looking for a fight I hear. lol, I don't doubt Vic would take it. "don't **** with lobsters". love that sig.

Floyd's natural fighting weight is about 135 based upon the weight he walks around at, which is about 151-152. He has had the majority of his fights at 130 and 135, and when he moved to 147, he rarley weight in at the limit, often just under at 145 and 144. Floyd at welterweight is a disadvantage to himself, as he has to put on more weight than normal and sacrifice his speed. Then why not fight at 140 if he's at a disadvantage at welter? And I think it was a bitchy move giving me red and calling me an idiot instead of just arguing your case.

Please explain why Floyd is not a welter? If he's not a welter why then fight a lightweight at WW? Why not 140 or below? The concept of a small welter falls on deaf ears on me, unless you want to argue that we should have even more divisons. I cannot see the point in how much a particular fighter has moved up. Usually fighters gain weight over the course of a career. JMM has just grown into (or really just moved up to) LW so surely it's a huge step to move up 2 divisions. And it's not 8 pounds. JMM weighed 134½ last time so it'll be 10 pounds. PBF was a 147 last time so he'll move up 11. Sounds pretty equal to me. Floyd's natural fighting weight is about 135 based upon the weight he walks around at, which is about 151-152. He has had the majority of his fights at 130 and 135, and when he moved to 147, he rarley weight in at the limit, often just under at 145 and 144. Floyd at welterweight is a disadvantage to himself, as he has to put on more weight than normal and sacrifice his speed.

JMM being 35 is a separate issue only partially balanced by the question mark on Mayweather being 32 and what's most important inactive. Mayweather is NOT a full grown WW. Full grown welters weigh about 160. Height is not weight, but if you talk about two fighters are about the same height, they weigh about the same on fight night, and spent most of their careers one division apart, it is clear that it has nothing to do with Mayweather Pavlik. It is extremely far fetched because Marquez who moved up 2 weight classes has to move up to face Mayweather who already moved up 3 weight classes Mayweather who moved up 3 weight classes has to move up to face Pavlik on the other hand is a natural big middleweight who never weighed anywhere close to jr. middle after turning 19. Moreover we are talking about JMM moving up 8 pounds (two weigh classes would be 12 pounds). and Mayweather moving up 11 pounds (two weight classes would be 13 pounds why the double standard? Translate the same treatment to Mayweather-Pavlik and you have that the fight should be at a catchweight of 155-156, now that starts to sound a bit different if Kelly has to make almost the jr. middle limit. yeah that's like a 60 pounds difference on fight night the fight at hand the difference will be about 5 pounds. Please explain why Floyd is not a welter? If he's not a welter why then fight a lightweight at WW? Why not 140 or below? The concept of a small welter falls on deaf ears on me, unless you want to argue that we should have even more divisons. I cannot see the point in how much a particular fighter has moved up. Usually fighters gain weight over the course of a career. JMM has just grown into (or really just moved up to) LW so surely it's a huge step to move up 2 divisions. And it's not 8 pounds. JMM weighed 134½ last time so it'll be 10 pounds. PBF was a 147 last time so he'll move up 11. Sounds pretty equal to me.

yeah because this is the first time a fighter moved up two weight class

Floyd just wants be be able to whoop the dude who beat Pac twice.

Hmm... Poor 35 year old JMM has been a LW for less than a year and now has to jump 2 weightdivisions. PBF on the other hand is a fullgrown WW having fought at or above the weight for the past 3½ years. Thanks but I felt a need to illustrate the monumental task JMM is facing. The comparison between JMM moving up 2 weightclasses and PBF doing the same doesn't seem too farfetched to me espacially when you consider that boxing is divided in WEIGHT divisions and not height or reach divisions. Otherwise the Leonard-Hearns fight would have been retarded. Indeed it is. Thank god Vitali didn't choose Hopkins (a p4p-pounder as well) as his comeback-opponent instead of Peter. That's two divisions as well but there you can talk about a sizedifference. ok we get it, you hate floyd. now stop bumping your thread. you are only hurting your own rep on this site.

Hmm... Poor 35 year old JMM has been a LW for less than a year and now has to jump 2 weightdivisions. PBF on the other hand is a fullgrown WW having fought at or above the weight for the past 3½ years. JMM being 35 is a separate issue only partially balanced by the question mark on Mayweather being 32 and what's most important inactive. Mayweather is NOT a full grown WW. Full grown welters weigh about 160. Height is not weight, but if you talk about two fighters are about the same height, they weigh about the same on fight night, and spent most of their careers one division apart, it is clear that it has nothing to do with Mayweather Pavlik. Thanks but I felt a need to illustrate the monumental task JMM is facing. The comparison between JMM moving up 2 weightclasses and PBF doing the same doesn't seem too farfetched to me espacially when you consider that boxing is divided in WEIGHT divisions and not height or reach divisions. Otherwise the Leonard-Hearns fight would have been retarded. It is extremely far fetched because Marquez who moved up 2 weight classes has to move up to face Mayweather who already moved up 3 weight classes Mayweather who moved up 3 weight classes has to move up to face Pavlik on the other hand is a natural big middleweight who never weighed anywhere close to jr. middle after turning 19. Moreover we are talking about JMM moving up 8 pounds (two weigh classes would be 12 pounds). and Mayweather moving up 11 pounds (two weight classes would be 13 pounds why the double standard? Translate the same treatment to Mayweather-Pavlik and you have that the fight should be at a catchweight of 155-156, now that starts to sound a bit different if Kelly has to make almost the jr. middle limit. Indeed it is. Thank god Vitali didn't choose Hopkins (a p4p-pounder as well) as his comeback-opponent instead of Peter. That's two divisions as well but there you can talk about a sizedifference. yeah that's like a 60 pounds difference on fight night the fight at hand the difference will be about 5 pounds.