Barrera and Morales are better than Marquez

Well if your talking about rounds won i gave Manny Pacquiao 5 rounds against Erik Morales, and 4 rounds against JMM. Its just Erik Morales's chin is much more solid than JMM's chin and he took the punches better. I agree with your orignal post theres no way resume wise JMM is anywhere close to MAB, Erik Morales. But i still think in mythical match ups he would fare well against both fighters. Even in there prime's Erik Morales, MAB, had there fair share of troubles. Erik Morales with Daniel Zaragoza, Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, Guty Espadas 1, Carlos Hernandez, ETC. And MAB with Agapito Sanchez, Jose Luis Valbuena, Junior Jones x2, ETC. Which doesn't really mean anything but it shows they were still beatable, especially from a fighter of JMM's class. well, every fighter is beatable, I assume that automatically. which is why I dont count losses against fighters that badly as long as theyre fighting the best. MAB was clearly not prime in the Junior Jones days. like I said before, the difference between the Kennedy McKinney and 1st Morales fight is huge. defensively theres a noticable change in him. Id like to think of the JJ fights as wake up calls for MAB, much like the Phillips fight was for Tsyzu. you cant expect fighters to dominate everyone, especially when they have a warriors spirit and cant help but to get into brawls. and the warriors spirit thing aint an excuse either, Morales would constantly risk the fight just to get into a fight and please the fans. just like in the 12th Pacquiao round, which he probebly would have won had he not gone crazy (based on how successful that 11th was for him). and even prime Marquez had trouble with fighters like Freddie Norwood and Chris John. I dont know, personally watching MAB vs. Morales III and comparing it to the MAB vs. Marquez one, it looks like MAB has way more pop to his punches and his intensity and stamina seemed much better as well. I really dont think Marquez would have beaten that version of MAB. It seems to me that while Marquez is fantastic at what he does, but MAB and Morales have much more to offer. such variety in the way they can fight and adapt.

I think morales and mab are better than jmm, but it didnt help jmm that he was managed by nacho, promoted by arum, and trained to be a counterpuncher. jmm also fukked up when he passed on the hamed fight and the pac rematch to fight john DAMMM. Imagine that Naz fight vs JMM. Naz is made perfect for JMM's style cuz he is a counterpuncher and Naz is Defense is weak. I still think Naz's chin and power would have beat JMM.

for me; Morales > MAB > JMM I got MAB > Morales > JMM.

I think morales and mab are better than jmm, but it didnt help jmm that he was managed by nacho, promoted by arum, and trained to be a counterpuncher. jmm also fukked up when he passed on the hamed fight and the pac rematch to fight john

you are really dumb man...how doesfloyd mayweather get closer to becoming the First off, just let me say that I love to watch Marquez fight. his counter punching skill is outstanding, and his combination punching is some of the best Ive seen in a long time. I cant wait to see his fight against Juan Diaz, and he deserves his #2 spot in the p4p list. Now that Ive gotten that out of the way, I have to say that Marquez isnt as good as Morales and MAB were. I think its safe to say that Marquez's real career defining fights are the Pacquiao ones, right? I think its also safe to say that Marquez's style is almost perfect to give Pacquiao fits, his counter punching is great at upseting a quick, hard puncher he gets off balance often with his lunging shots. and yet Morales is still the one who has the most convincing win over Pacquiao. I had Marquez winning the 2nd fight 115-113 and the 1st one I have a draw, marquez win or Pacquiao win all depending on one very difficult round(which ends up deciding the winner of the fight, go figure), but Morales clearly beat Pacquiao more one sidedly. he even could have taken the 12th round, but decided to slug it out and turn southpaw(which clearly benefitted Pacquiao). In other words, he outfought Marquez at his own game, counterpunching. As for MAB, you can say what you want about the MAB-Marquez fight, but Marquez did NOT have an easy time. yea, he won it, but this was a damn close fight. and this was Barrera at the twilight of his career, he sacficed a lot of his natural power to keep some of his diminishing speed in that fight too. If Barrera had more snap to his punches, the fight could have ended up quite different. even without much snap to his punches, the fight was dead even after 9 or 10 rounds and Barrera legitimately dropped Marquez, and Barrera didnt have anything left for the final haul and Marquez ended up sweeping the final rounds. I have to admit that I doubt that Marquez could have even beaten the MAB of the 3rd Morales fight, who had better stamina and more powerful punches, but was just as fast and just about as technically solid. although Barrera would never have been as successful against Pacquiao as Marquez was. his style just doesnt match up with Pacquiao's well. and career wise, I dont think theres much debate that Marquez has a bit of catching up to do. no offense to Marquez...hes an outstanding fighter. but having rewatched MAB vs. Morales I & III along with Morales vs. Pacquiao last night, I was just amazed at how good they really were, even though Ive seen those about 4 times each it still blows my mind. where can i get all the classic boxing matches??not the rly old ones..but the ones in the 2000 to o9...i realy wanna go back and watch them again but cant coz i ddnt record them

I am curious to see how Barrera looks now that he doesnt have legendary trainer Rudy Perez as his trainer.

Well if your talking about rounds won i gave Manny Pacquiao 5 rounds against Erik Morales, and 4 rounds against JMM. Its just Erik Morales's chin is much more solid than JMM's chin and he took the punches better. I agree with your orignal post theres no way resume wise JMM is anywhere close to MAB, Erik Morales. But i still think in mythical match ups he would fare well against both fighters. Even in there prime's Erik Morales, MAB, had there fair share of troubles. Erik Morales with Daniel Zaragoza, Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, Guty Espadas 1, Carlos Hernandez, ETC. And MAB with Agapito Sanchez, Jose Luis Valbuena, Junior Jones x2, ETC. Which doesn't really mean anything but it shows they were still beatable, especially from a fighter of JMM's class. Man, how come I missed your posts before? We may not agree on everything but thus far your posts have been money in the bank.

lol So Hector Commacho should be praised for gettin by Sugar Ray Leonard, just cause he's got Ray's number on resume? You kids are f$#%in retarded lmao, like real f#$%in morons. What does that have to do with what I said? I'm beginning to think you're the moron here.

Skill wise, Marquez is in a class of his own. I even think he's stronger then both Morales and Barrera. The one and only thing that hurt Marquez' career was the fact no one would fight him early on his career. He should have gotten a shot at Hamed before Barrera, but Steward admitted he chose Barrera over Marquez because of Barrera's recent loss at the time. And counter punching is just part of Marquez's game. The guy leads with left hooks to the body and right hands, with and without a faint. Plus with all the punches Barrera and Morales would take, Marquez would have a field day with both. His accuracy and hand speed was ridiculous. His punches were short, fast, and hard. And anyone who thinks Marquez "peaked late in his career" is a f*ckin a idiot lmao. Flat out. He didn't peak later in his career, he got bigger fights later in his career. When he was younger he was twice as fast and able to put 3 to 4 punches together in a single flurry. The dude was scary, now his reaction is slower, especially when he has to reach for a punch. But at the same time he's still good enough to put in some classic work. didnt marquez get a gift against an old barrera? you cant know for certain that he was better than mab or em in their primes. this is all guesss work. one thing we can depend on is their records against eachother. pac-5wins morales-2 barrera-2 marquez-1 i think that rating is right!

lol Yeah but the fact you can easily distinguish skill for skill between each fighter actually grants a debate, if not a blatant perspective of how Marquez would give both of them MORE PROBLEMS then they probably have ever encountered in their careers. But then again, you may be a ****in moron lmao It's hard to measure skill in boxing because you can look great against Joe Blow then exposed when faced with someone good. That's not the case with Marquez but the point is, a fighter should be measured by his resume. Barrera and Morales blow Marquez out of the water in that category.

Agree with threadstarter. This shouldn't even be a debate.

he didnt want it: http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=9910 I would have loved to see a rematch, i still do resume: Morales, Barrera skills: Juan Manuel Marquez if marquez stays fighting and keeps winning good fights, he might surpass both of them by the end of his career...which is soon. I have respect for JMM and not taking him anything away from him but skills doesn't matter unless you have a good resume. Even though JMM beat MAB and Casamayor, JMM was considered a fresh fighter for his age. I would still want to see a rematch with MAB and even see JMM faced Morales(with a tune up fight for EM). His upcoming fight against Juan Diaz will be good. Diaz got a good chin, wil JMM target the body? Can't wait for the fight.

its just immpossible to rank those guys they were all very good.......id say if they fought twice each, in their primes, with a good gamplan, they would win 1 lose 1, all by SD.... :lol1:

True, that is why I said Manny needs to put Marquez to sleep or Marquez needs to COMPLETELY dominate Manny to be able to tell who is the true winner, so the haters and nuthuggers won't have anything to bitch and moan about. as far as im concerned and the recordbooks, jmm hasn't won anything and always on his ass.

i think MAB should have gotten a rematch He's working his way up to it. :D he didnt want it: http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=9910 I would have loved to see a rematch, i still do resume: Morales, Barrera skills: Juan Manuel Marquez if marquez stays fighting and keeps winning good fights, he might surpass both of them by the end of his career...which is soon.

I'm not taking away Manny's victory over JMM since he won by 1 point, and I agree he isn't P4P #3 for nothing, but you have to admit KDs or not it really could have gone any other way. yes that's why i said it was close, i'd have no problem w/ ppl thinking jmm won. but that's what the KD did, win the fight for pac. the problem is the other way around, jmm fans or pachaters will see jmm winning and not consider it close. just like their whining hero.

I don't believe so, at least not better then Marquez. I still think they are even, until Manny puts Marquez to sleep or Marquez opens a boxing clinic on Manny their fights will continue to be WAY TOO CLOSE to call. you see, the problem w/ watching Manny is you get used to see him obliterating his opponents, any other way and you'll have that conclusion. jmm isn't a patsy, only the very elite could get by him, he's not #3 p4p for nothing. but a win is a win however close, that's mostly the result you get from 2 very good fighters. 80% of his KDs came from PAC.

Hard to say. Either guy coulda won the MAB-JMM fight. I'd see a JMM-EM fight even.

i love watching MAB. he's the perfect boxer. has great counterpunching of JMM and aggressiveness of EM. but current PAC >>> all of them in their primes :D

Couldn't have said it any better XD ha ha yeah sorry repeated some of what you said but yeah I think were on the same page