Cotto vs a Prime Tszyu: Who Wins at 144?

Cheers man, I agree with you. We all have our opinions and sometimes they're hard to change but still, if I read a great post, I'll happily let it change my mind. Unfortunately on this, I don't think my mind will change though lol. Well, I really have to disagree pretty strongly with the first Mitchell fight. While he did better than the second fight he was still getting beaten pretty obviously I thought and it was just getting worse for him as the fight went on. The judges all had Tszyu up by a couple of rounds when Mitchell gave up with the supposed injury. The much harder, cleaner punches were being landed by Tszyu and as the fight wore on you could see they were really starting to effect him. Anyway, again though, we're talking about both being in their primes and in their primes neither Phillips, Hatton or Mitchell would have beaten Tszyu. The Phillips fight was when he had terrible training habits from being too confident. He struggled to go ten rounds hard because he thought he would just KO everyone. After that fight, he was very different. Yeah man, I definitely agree with your last paragraph. You know, the thing is, Cotto still has a lot to prove I think before we should be saying he would beat Tszyu now. I mean sure, there is a possibility of it but I don't think it's a very big one. I think maybe we should be waiting until he has met everyone in his division, like Tszyu did, beaten them all and been there for at least a few years before comparing him with Tszyu. Cotto hasn't proven himself completely yet. In my opinion. very true, at 140 Cotto beat the next breed, the breed that Kostya wasn't around long enough to face and he basically just eliminated the undefeated prospects there in Carlos Maussa, Paulie Malignaggi and Ricardo Torres but he has yet to do it at Welterweight, you are very much correct in saying that because he only had upwards of 4 fights at Welterweight and while 2 was against BIG names, 1 of which was a Tszyu opponent it's still too early to say whats what, after this whole ordeal with Margarito and Gomez we'll see whats really what, to be honest even AFTER those fights or even right now it's still one of those fights that just have to happen to see who wins, they both have too many good, effective things to offer and while Tszyu was a better puncher IMO he couldn't Box like Miguel and Tszyu could BOX, he had the skill but when he wasn't wailing punches at a hurt victim his pace didn't allow for him to be as effectively aggressive as Miguel, whatever one lacks they make up for it in another way ya dig.. you know your shit. I'd say Cotto wins but then again Tszyu had his fair share of moments that can never be taken from him and he's shown his dominance before, Cotto gets hurt by flush punchers and thats what Tszyu is, a hard hitting flush puncher, all respect to him for doing his ability because I truly do respect him but I just think that even in his prime if he faced Cotto now that Cotto would be too solid of a fighter, he would bring elements that I feel will just out do Tszyu, it would be a FIGHT, a true fight but in his physical prime Tszyu was too reckless and burnt himself out before 10 and in his Boxing prime, where he matured and learned from his loss and corrected his defecits I think Cotto is still a better boxer now than what Tszyu was then. MUCH respect to Tszyu, one of my favorite fighters actually but hhe lacked the proper fundamentals to defeat a prime, non-dehydrated Cotto at basically Welterweight, Yszu is great but I think he losses this Boxing match and Cotto is smart so IMO it would be a Boxing match and not an all out scrap, Tszyu could knock him out.. 100

once again homie a very good post, I can't do nothing but hold on to my opinion because I can't point out any flaws in your post, you made facts and further enforced them with more facts so there is no room for debate, it is clear that you feel how you feel about Tszyu and I feel how I feel about Cotto. I do feel that the 4 pounds would make a BIG difference in the way Cotto comes into the fight, see Cotto punches in volume and I just feel that with Kostya all you really have to do is stay active.. Sharmba Mitchell did it in the first fight and would have won if not due to a blown out knee IMO, Vince Phillips did the same thing, he stood active and threw punches in bunches and all the while when he wasn't throwing he moved and made himself either harder to hit or he clinched. I just feel like Cotto had more fundamentals and the thing that Kostya had to his favor was the right hand, Cotto is VERY VERY vulnerable to that punch and this is why I can't really debate your post or your opinion, a right hand from Kostya means lights out, but Cotto has shown a tendency to rebound well, almost as if he brings just enough to revive himself from a KO, it's something unbelievable like when I saw Cotto-Torres live and not to say that he could do that against Tszyu but Cotto has done better with more weight on him so I think the 4 pounds will help him.. I don't want to write too much more but I will say this, Cotto and Kostya both add up to their own stature and it's very hard to doubt either of the 2, this is a fight that would just have to happen in order to see whats what but one thing is for sure, neither of them are anything to play with and if anyone came half assed he will lose.. even though I stand by my opinion of Cotto winning I very much respect your opinion because it is non biased and true, I can't include the Vince Phillips loss to how I feel Cotto will win because Tszyu was an all around different fighter, like Cintron was against Mathysse and Margarito so the same flaws don't apply, you were correct with that much homie and I respect your opinion 100%. Cheers man, I agree with you. We all have our opinions and sometimes they're hard to change but still, if I read a great post, I'll happily let it change my mind. Unfortunately on this, I don't think my mind will change though lol. Well, I really have to disagree pretty strongly with the first Mitchell fight. While he did better than the second fight he was still getting beaten pretty obviously I thought and it was just getting worse for him as the fight went on. The judges all had Tszyu up by a couple of rounds when Mitchell gave up with the supposed injury. The much harder, cleaner punches were being landed by Tszyu and as the fight wore on you could see they were really starting to effect him. Anyway, again though, we're talking about both being in their primes and in their primes neither Phillips, Hatton or Mitchell would have beaten Tszyu. The Phillips fight was when he had terrible training habits from being too confident. He struggled to go ten rounds hard because he thought he would just KO everyone. After that fight, he was very different. Yeah man, I definitely agree with your last paragraph. You know, the thing is, Cotto still has a lot to prove I think before we should be saying he would beat Tszyu now. I mean sure, there is a possibility of it but I don't think it's a very big one. I think maybe we should be waiting until he has met everyone in his division, like Tszyu did, beaten them all and been there for at least a few years before comparing him with Tszyu. Cotto hasn't proven himself completely yet. In my opinion.

i would have loved to have seen that and im confident tszyu could knock him out or at least stick the ud, his power and intelligence are hard to beat

Tszyu KO5 Cotto, prime for prime. Cotto's chin is too shaky, KT would be able to finish him off after rocking him.

This is just about the hardest fight to pick that I can think of. Since I'm a much bigger fan of Tyszu, I'll pick Tszyu UD Cotto. Both chins would have gotten tested, but I think they both finish on their feet. I think that Tszyu was a better boxer and might have landed more cleanly over 12 rounds to take a close unanimous decision. This, of course, if the fight was fought anywhere but MSG.

Cheers for the post compliment man :) Indeed, but neither can you use the Vince Phillips fight as a gauge to what Cotto might do to Tszyu. Tszyu was a very different fighter after the Phillips loss. Before then he trained very differently and had become overly confident of his skills. Seeing as we're talking about a prime Tszyu (The Tszyu that put a monstrous beatdown on Miguel Angel Gonzales) Cotto would have no chance of out-boxing Tszyu. While Cotto has shown reasonably impressive boxing skills in some fights it isn't enough to warrant him beating Tszyu in a boxing match. Tszyu was never beaten in a boxing match. It plays in to the way he fights perfectly and would keep him fighting his fight at a comfortable pace. A prime Tszyu also has stamina to go twelve hard rounds and he himself was a very vicious body puncher. I never once saw Tszyu hurt to the body or slowed down by body shots. He had good defense against them. I can't see Cotto bringing that part of his game into effect enough for it to influence the outcome. I think the difference between Torres/Corley etc is that while they had Cotto hurt neither of them were very good finishers. In his prime there was not a better finisher in the game than Tszyu. If he had an opponent hurt, they lost. You make some great points but I really can't see any way that Cotto could out-box Tszyu. If we're talking prime then there is just no way that he would out-box him. While Cotto is good and he has shown some skills in the boxing department they are still no where near the level that a prime Tszyu could display. If it turned into a boxing match, as I said before, that would be playing into Tszyu perfect game and Tszyu would win that. If not by a KO then definitely a UD. Cottos only chance to beat a prime Tszyu would be to swarm completely as Hatton did and not allow him the space or the ability to get set to throw anything, but, Cotto just doesn't fight like that. He fights in a patient methodical manner which again suits Tszyu perfectly. If you allowed Tszyu to get set then I don't think there is a fighter that was at 140 that could have beaten him. He showed all the skills needed to beat a fighter like Cotto throughout his career and never had any problems with similar fighters (prime Tszyu) whereas Cotto has shown a number of weak points in his game which he has, so far, been good enough to overcome or the opponents not good enough to finish on. Tszyu would finish on it (against the hard punching Torres, Cotto looked very vulnerable at points. Tszyu is more powerful than Torres but more importantly he is a much, much better all round fighter and in his prime didn't tire down the stretch). once again homie a very good post, I can't do nothing but hold on to my opinion because I can't point out any flaws in your post, you made facts and further enforced them with more facts so there is no room for debate, it is clear that you feel how you feel about Tszyu and I feel how I feel about Cotto. I do feel that the 4 pounds would make a BIG difference in the way Cotto comes into the fight, see Cotto punches in volume and I just feel that with Kostya all you really have to do is stay active.. Sharmba Mitchell did it in the first fight and would have won if not due to a blown out knee IMO, Vince Phillips did the same thing, he stood active and threw punches in bunches and all the while when he wasn't throwing he moved and made himself either harder to hit or he clinched. I just feel like Cotto had more fundamentals and the thing that Kostya had to his favor was the right hand, Cotto is VERY VERY vulnerable to that punch and this is why I can't really debate your post or your opinion, a right hand from Kostya means lights out, but Cotto has shown a tendency to rebound well, almost as if he brings just enough to revive himself from a KO, it's something unbelievable like when I saw Cotto-Torres live and not to say that he could do that against Tszyu but Cotto has done better with more weight on him so I think the 4 pounds will help him.. I don't want to write too much more but I will say this, Cotto and Kostya both add up to their own stature and it's very hard to doubt either of the 2, this is a fight that would just have to happen in order to see whats what but one thing is for sure, neither of them are anything to play with and if anyone came half assed he will lose.. even though I stand by my opinion of Cotto winning I very much respect your opinion because it is non biased and true, I can't include the Vince Phillips loss to how I feel Cotto will win because Tszyu was an all around different fighter, like Cintron was against Mathysse and Margarito so the same flaws don't apply, you were correct with that much homie and I respect your opinion 100%.

don't forget that it takes A LOT out of you to do to a fighter what Torres did to Cotto, it's why Cotto was able to get back up and KO Torres, when Torres was on all four's don't think exhaustion had nothing to do with it, he didn't have the strength to get up again and he was very hurt too. he caught Cotto good but it took a lot out of him too as it would have for Tszyu and you never really know how Tszyu would have reacted to Cotto's punches who tends to punch in bunches, the same exact way Vince Phillips beat him, accurate power punching and Cotto is VERY capable of doing that. Cotto is a strong man so to say he couldn't do it at 140 is not good, regardless of any troubles he may have had at 140 he always came back to win so to say he couldn't against Tszyu when he did it against 3 other people is absurd but it's questionable. honestly I think going by the thread and adding the 4 extra pounds that Cotto would have been able to maneuver around Kostya's right hand and connect with his own punches.. but just like I told homie above you dogz you can't use the Torres fight to stamp your claim on a Cotto fight, you can do it but it would be foolish. Cheers for the post compliment man :) Indeed, but neither can you use the Vince Phillips fight as a gauge to what Cotto might do to Tszyu. Tszyu was a very different fighter after the Phillips loss. Before then he trained very differently and had become overly confident of his skills. Seeing as we're talking about a prime Tszyu (The Tszyu that put a monstrous beatdown on Miguel Angel Gonzales) Cotto would have no chance of out-boxing Tszyu. While Cotto has shown reasonably impressive boxing skills in some fights it isn't enough to warrant him beating Tszyu in a boxing match. Tszyu was never beaten in a boxing match. It plays in to the way he fights perfectly and would keep him fighting his fight at a comfortable pace. A prime Tszyu also has stamina to go twelve hard rounds and he himself was a very vicious body puncher. I never once saw Tszyu hurt to the body or slowed down by body shots. He had good defense against them. I can't see Cotto bringing that part of his game into effect enough for it to influence the outcome. I think the difference between Torres/Corley etc is that while they had Cotto hurt neither of them were very good finishers. In his prime there was not a better finisher in the game than Tszyu. If he had an opponent hurt, they lost. You make some great points but I really can't see any way that Cotto could out-box Tszyu. If we're talking prime then there is just no way that he would out-box him. While Cotto is good and he has shown some skills in the boxing department they are still no where near the level that a prime Tszyu could display. If it turned into a boxing match, as I said before, that would be playing into Tszyu perfect game and Tszyu would win that. If not by a KO then definitely a UD. Cottos only chance to beat a prime Tszyu would be to swarm completely as Hatton did and not allow him the space or the ability to get set to throw anything, but, Cotto just doesn't fight like that. He fights in a patient methodical manner which again suits Tszyu perfectly. If you allowed Tszyu to get set then I don't think there is a fighter that was at 140 that could have beaten him. He showed all the skills needed to beat a fighter like Cotto throughout his career and never had any problems with similar fighters (prime Tszyu) whereas Cotto has shown a number of weak points in his game which he has, so far, been good enough to overcome or the opponents not good enough to finish on. Tszyu would finish on it (against the hard punching Torres, Cotto looked very vulnerable at points. Tszyu is more powerful than Torres but more importantly he is a much, much better all round fighter and in his prime didn't tire down the stretch).

Prime kosta would ko cotto.What torres did to cotto,kosta would put cotto to sleep. don't forget that it takes A LOT out of you to do to a fighter what Torres did to Cotto, it's why Cotto was able to get back up and KO Torres, when Torres was on all four's don't think exhaustion had nothing to do with it, he didn't have the strength to get up again and he was very hurt too. he caught Cotto good but it took a lot out of him too as it would have for Tszyu and you never really know how Tszyu would have reacted to Cotto's punches who tends to punch in bunches, the same exact way Vince Phillips beat him, accurate power punching and Cotto is VERY capable of doing that. Cotto is a strong man so to say he couldn't do it at 140 is not good, regardless of any troubles he may have had at 140 he always came back to win so to say he couldn't against Tszyu when he did it against 3 other people is absurd but it's questionable. honestly I think going by the thread and adding the 4 extra pounds that Cotto would have been able to maneuver around Kostya's right hand and connect with his own punches.. but just like I told homie above you dogz you can't use the Torres fight to stamp your claim on a Cotto fight, you can do it but it would be foolish.

tszyu would destroy him at any weight he was an absoulote freak with his brilliant timing and explosive power, remember, cotto took 11 rounds to finish a past his best zab judah (after he had weakened zab with low blows) while tszyu knocked a prime judah out cold in 2 rounds, tszyu by a fairly quick KO don't use 1 fight to decide who would win another one, just look at Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr and Glen Johnson, Roy beat Bernard, Bernard beat glen and Glen beat Roy so just because Roy beat Bernard and Bernard beat Glen don't mean Glen can't beat Roy ya feel me? see you also have to remember that when Zab fell it was his stupidity that lost him the fight, instead of being humble and staying down for 8 and gather his feet, especially with the round about to be over in like 5 seconds, he decided to just jump up while his feet were still spaghetti and he fell back down, he got hit hard and due to his jumpy style he dropped and couldn't gather himself right away but he was okay he had just never been hit so hard and flush so he fell and due to PURE ignorance he got up and fell again forcing the referee to halt the fight, had he just stayed down not only would the round have ended but he would have had a few seconds to gather himself and continue and a full minute to regroup in the corner and come out with more respect for Tszyu's power, another chance to repeat the 1st round for the rest of the night.. no disrespect to Tszyu because I respect the fuck out of him and admire his accomplishments but Zab Judah could have played it smart and walked away a Decision winner had he had more humility and mental strength, all he had to do was stay down for the 8 and wait until he regrouped and he would have gotten a FULL minute in his corner and time to come out in the 3rd and continue what he started in the 1st and the duration of the 2nd until that right hand landed. not because it took Tszyu 2 rounds and Cotto 11 will you say Tszyu can beat Cotto when Judah didn't fall the way he did against Tszyu to Cotto, he fell because he could no longer fight while against Tszyu he could have he just, for the sake of saving face to the fans who IN HIS OWN mind thought he was superman, got back up knowing he had spaghetti legs.. not to say Tszyu couldn't have won the fight regardless but THAT much is evident, Cotto beat Judah more convincingly because he beat the fight out of him and didn't just land 1 punch that Zab's own stupidity prevented him from getting up again.

Prime kosta would ko cotto.What torres did to cotto,kosta would put cotto to sleep.

Yes, exactly. His body was starting to come apart at the seams. I remember meeting him briefly and talking about his training. He said some things were starting to get much more difficult than usual and that while he was still able to do all the same stuff, he couldn't do it with the same intensity and gusto he used to do it with. I sometimes think he needed one more big fight to go out with. Then he would have had the respect he deserves and be remembered for his whole career, not one loss to a semi decent fighter that he should have beaten. great post..

I think Cotto would win, his ability to Box has always been shown ever since he got hurt by Ricardo Torres and Demarcus Corley, he may have held and turned but he broke free and did his job, his ability to both Box and bang gives me the hunch that Kostya wouldn't have made it, I think he would have been KO'ed the way Vince Phillips got him, Hatton hits hard and there's no doubt but against Cotto it's a different kind of power and pressure, he doesn't hit or hold he more like hits and hits then moves.. maybe I just bit my tounge by screaming KO, I'll admit I jumped the gun on that but at least by decision I can see Cotto coming off with the win and maybe a knock down.. Kostya was a strong opponent and I would never want to discredit him like that, he will always be a great to me but I think Cotto always had the skills he demonstrated against Mosley it's just he never had such a physically gifted opponent in him to force them out in in such an impressive way, I think Kostya would have too but eventually the punches would have added up and Cotto would have won buy a comfortable margin.. of course this is ONLY opinion and I could be VERY wrong..

Tszyu puts Cotto to sleep.

Yeah... throw in all the injuries, and I think you have a very reasonable retirement. Yes, exactly. His body was starting to come apart at the seams. I remember meeting him briefly and talking about his training. He said some things were starting to get much more difficult than usual and that while he was still able to do all the same stuff, he couldn't do it with the same intensity and gusto he used to do it with. I sometimes think he needed one more big fight to go out with. Then he would have had the respect he deserves and be remembered for his whole career, not one loss to a semi decent fighter that he should have beaten.

It was a pity. He was a great fighter but I think it was probably the end for him. He had been talking of retirement for a while before the Hatton fight and how he simply didn't have the hunger to really get up for fights anymore. He was able to be properly motivated for the Mitchell 2 fight because of all the trash talk Mitchell kept hounding him with and it really riled him up. Unfortunately for Mitchell. It would have been great to see him in one more big fight. With De La Hoya, Mosley or Mayweather maybe. Yeah... throw in all the injuries, and I think you have a very reasonable retirement.

you're right, cotto pressure's intelligently. cotto / tzuyu - at that weight, i'd be better suited to answer this question after a couple more cotto fights. Your right. He pressures better. Hatton is a messy ass pressure fighter. He's ugly, his style is ugly, and the only reason he really beat Tszyu was cause Tszyu thought he was really that far behind that should just quit rather than get hugged to death for another rd or 2. Whatever it was. On the other hand, Cotto has EFFECTIVE pressure. He lands murderous body shots and painful hooks to the head. I think his pressure would murder Tszyu's body and take him out in the later rounds. The only way I'd see Tszyu winning is with a big right hand. At 140lbs, it could happen. At 147lbs, I don't think so. You guys need to think before typing... Hatton's success in this fight was smothering Zoo, wrestling and in general making sure he would always be too close for Zoo to unleash his right. It was not so much the pressure which did it, as the range. Cotto cuts the ring well, blocks punches better than Hatton, he is bigger, he is almost ambidestrous up close... but he does not do the above, and he is slower on his feet. This means Zoo would have a much better chance of keeping Cotto where his right hand is more damaging.

It's a pity Kostya never came back after Hatton. He always hinted that he wasn't finished, perhaps he's not. Although I very much doubt he will come back, I'd love to see it. It was a pity. He was a great fighter but I think it was probably the end for him. He had been talking of retirement for a while before the Hatton fight and how he simply didn't have the hunger to really get up for fights anymore. He was able to be properly motivated for the Mitchell 2 fight because of all the trash talk Mitchell kept hounding him with and it really riled him up. Unfortunately for Mitchell. It would have been great to see him in one more big fight. With De La Hoya, Mosley or Mayweather maybe.

Yeah, I think Kostya would have this one in the bag. Tszyu was brilliant against any fighter in which he could get set. Hence, the reason why he never lost to a fast, slick boxer or in any controlled pace fight. Hatton was able to use his smothering, dirty, rough wrestling tactics to keep Tszyu from getting set and Tszyu just didn't have the stamina anymore to really pull out of his comfort zone and push for it. Too old. Cotto is a measured pressure fighter. He doesn't smother, and doesn't rush in. He actually stands in the kill zone waiting for the moment to press and go for the body etc. Against Tszyu this type of fight would be suicide. Like it or not, if Tszyu hit Cotto with his right or left Cotto wouldn't fair as well as he did against all the other fighters who hurt him and Tszyu was one of the best finishers in his time. He wouldn't let Cotto off like others did. Tszyu was also quite hard to hit to the body and in his prime had rather good defense...his head movement especially was underrated. Whereas Cotto is quite open to the right hand, either straight or uppercut as he holds his hands right up in front of his face and out a bit. Tszyu also had the ability to out-box or simply out power Cotto. He had the skills to keep Cotto out on the end of his punches and catch him coming in. I would go with a mid rounds KO after Cotto gets caught with a big right hand and severely wobbles him, then finishes it when Cotto tries to grab and hold on.

It's a pity Kostya never came back after Hatton. He always hinted that he wasn't finished, perhaps he's not. Although I very much doubt he will come back, I'd love to see it.

I would say Tszyu only because i dont see Cotto as a fighter that applies a lot of pressure when a fighter hits him back and his calmness as a fighter is his mistake against a fighter like Tszyu. But then again, if he changes his style to be a brawler and in the face of Tszyu he could take him but then again Cottos chin would it fail him against a fighter like Tszyu? I just think Tszyu is the more proven fighter especially at 140.