Pac man no1 p4p ha ha ha

Pacquiao didn’t finish JMM off but he was the winner to me that night. The fact that the draw was a gift to JMM reinforces this, I only said that because your argument was that Manny fought fighters at the twilight of their careers. The same can be said about JMM too who fought an old back-pedaling Gainer who was riding out the sunset of his career. Why mention Peden when you know he wasn’t that good, then? FYI, MAB was in the top 5 and EM was in the top 10 of almost everyone’s P4P when they lost to Pac. So the argument that they were past their prime isn’t a good indication that they were not competitive at all and they were still near the zenith of their career at the time. The word is often times used as an excuse for their losses to Pac IMHO. You were obviously in favor of Marquez. JMM-MAB was more exciting to you because MAB engaged JMM in a war so JMM had his moments, something that MAB didn’t do against Manny. JMM could have shown more but his win was as slim as a blade. Pac’s victory last night was by a wide margin even though he didn’t KO him. Just imagine if MAB was up to the challenge and showed the same grit, the fight could have ended by a stoppage. As I further said in my post (that you omitted in your reply), Pac beat MAB in their 2nd fight but the rematch was warranted because it was a close fight. Even if they didn't fight the 3rd time, Pac was still ahead because EM beat him into a pulp, so he still have the edge. MAB was beaten and it was a total anihilation, so even if the rematch last night didn't happen, Pac was still ahead by a long shot. Morales didn’t prepare 100% for that fight and thought Zaheer was a walk on the park. And as I said again, it was Pac IHO who shortens EM career even though the latter won it. I wasn’t hyping Solis or Velazquez. On the contrary I said they were easier fights that Pacman had to take as a breather. It was Marquez wo had to take the easier fights one after the other as he fought the likes of Salido and Polo in succession as well as Jandaeng and Jaca . Manny clearly had the to take the rougher roads after their fight and has clearly dominated those fights not to mention he fought 8 fights against JMM’s 6. Morales sure as hell wasnt in the top 10 p4p when Pacquiao beat him. Morales was on the downside of his career because the accumulation of hard fights throughout his career, not to mention he had just been through wars with MAB and Pacquiao in less than 6 months. the weight draining also played a factor. The 1st Barrera win was huge though. simply huge. the only argument you could make against it was that he was given a gift against Morales in their 2nd fight. and the fact remains man, Barrera had been planning to retire for a long time. this was the end of his career, Pacquiao had nothing to do with it. his 2nd win over Barrera was not impressive, he only won rounds by outworking him, and I thought that that the fight was a bit closer than many people have been describing it.

Well this is a biased observation and obviously a double standard. If this is applied to JMM who I think is overrated, who did JMM beat that warrants him to be at #3 on your list? He even struggled against Jaca, a B-class fighter. MAB, JMM and Morales were 29 when he fought and beat them, JMM included. MAB was a top 5 P4P when Pac beat him, Erik was still in the top 10 until Manny made him age overnight and JMM is obviously is on everybody's top 10. So what I want to know is why they are suddenly over the hill when Pac beat them? You have already stated you are a Pac nuthugger, so most or all of your statements are biased.

I don't know if you're a hater, but let's just put it this way...you're a "disliker". I don't know if your precious Floyd will win, but if he starts fighting the best (and Hatton is a start), then sooner or later he will be exposed. How about telling Pac man to do the same. Surley he will be exposed. I like Pac and he is one of my favorite fighters but your "opinion" is as biased as anyone here. Your foolish and outlandish assumptions are only surpassed by your ignorant statements "Pac KO Floyd at 130" HA!

You do not understand p4p, son. It also has a lot to do with competition, which Pac has had consistently better opposition and scored KOs over them. One somewhat boring fight (mostly MAB's fault) does not take Pac out of the running. Yes, you are applying a double-standard, period. Power and speed count in boxing as much as 'skills' that are learned like Floyd's shoulder roll to elbow defense. I'm not at all convinced that Floyd at 130 or 135 would have beaten Pacquiao.

Juan Manuel showed me more that night, which means everything.. .. Pacquiao didn’t finish JMM off but he was the winner to me that night. The fact that the draw was a gift to JMM reinforces this, In reference to Gainer, the fact that you concede that he was "also" at the twilight of his career, as in along with MAB and Morales, then my point is stronger than ever. No one said Peden was as good as Manny btw, that's a straw man. I only said that because your argument was that Manny fought fighters at the twilight of their careers. The same can be said about JMM too who fought an old back-pedaling Gainer who was riding out the sunset of his career. Why mention Peden when you know he wasn’t that good, then? FYI, MAB was in the top 5 and EM was in the top 10 of almost everyone’s P4P when they lost to Pac. So the argument that they were past their prime isn’t a good indication that they were not competitive at all and they were still near the zenith of their career at the time. The word is often times used as an excuse for their losses to Pac IMHO. I give JMM no free pass, but I did mention that Juan Manuel's last bout with Barrera was more exciting than Pac's, with Manuel once again showing me more.. You were obviously in favor of Marquez. JMM-MAB was more exciting to you because MAB engaged JMM in a war so JMM had his moments, something that MAB didn’t do against Manny. JMM could have shown more but his win was as slim as a blade. Pac’s victory last night was by a wide margin even though he didn’t KO him. Just imagine if MAB was up to the challenge and showed the same grit, the fight could have ended by a stoppage. This is the point as these are the only two fighters that Pac beat who are worth mentioning, and both were at the twilight of their careers, and Morales beat him the first time, before losing to Zahir Raheem. As I further said in my post (that you omitted in your reply), Pac beat MAB in their 2nd fight but the rematch was warranted because it was a close fight. Even if they didn't fight the 3rd time, Pac was still ahead because EM beat him into a pulp, so he still have the edge. MAB was beaten and it was a total anihilation, so even if the rematch last night didn't happen, Pac was still ahead by a long shot. This is moving the goal post, as it doesn't matter. Zahir beat Morales good and even knocked him down. Two things Manny could not do in their first fight and an indication that Morales was on his way down, and fast.. Morales didn’t prepare 100% for that fight and thought Zaheer was a walk on the park. And as I said again, it was Pac IHO who shortens EM career even though the latter won it. Like I said, Barrera and Morales are the only ones worth mentioning and there is no need to hype up Solis and Velazquez (who had 10 losses and never won a belt) for argument's sake.. Not to mention that Pac's performance vs. Solis wasn't good and he had a lot of trouble with Velazquez before he got the TKO.. I wasn’t hyping Solis or Velazquez. On the contrary I said they were easier fights that Pacman had to take as a breather. It was Marquez wo had to take the easier fights one after the other as he fought the likes of Salido and Polo in succession as well as Jandaeng and Jaca . Manny clearly had the to take the rougher roads after their fight and has clearly dominated those fights not to mention he fought 8 fights against JMM’s 6.

Marquez is without a doubt one of the most technically sound boxers in the last 10 years and drew (thanks to a wrong scoring) against Pac in their first meeting. JMM won most of the last rounds and seemed to give Pac a boxing lesson but most of those rounds were closed and could have gone the other way. It is not as if JMM dominated Pac and won the fight clearly and there is no way he could have won 11 rounds of those rounds. The fight was a draw and let's leave it like that. Juan Manuel showed me more that night, which means everything.. Gainer was also in the twilight of his career when he beat him and Peden atlhough became a champion and had a 2 successful title defenses after that wans't really at the level of Pac. In reference to Gainer, the fact that you concede that he was "also" at the twilight of his career, as in along with MAB and Morales, then my point is stronger than ever. No one said Peden was as good as Manny btw, that's a straw man.. And since MAB is already a washed up fighter when JMM fought him, the fight was close enough that other boxing oundits believe that MAB should have won it. So why give JMM a free pass and not Pac? I give JMM no free pass, but I did mention that Juan Manuel's last bout with Barrera was more exciting than Pac's, with Manuel once again showing me more.. Pac is known for beating opponents twice? As far as I know it was only MAB and Pac whom he beat back to back. This is the point as these are the only two fighters that Pac beat who are worth mentioning, and both were at the twilight of their careers, and Morales beat him the first time, before losing to Zahir Raheem. Nobody was saying Erik is already a beat down fighter before he fought Pac. Zaheer Rahim beat EM alright but it was a boxing match and he didn't hurt Erik. This is moving the goal post, as it doesn't matter. Zahir beat Morales good and even knocked him down. Two things Manny could not do in their first fight and an indication that Morales was on his way down, and fast.. Since Pac's official debut in US in 2001, he has beaten most fighters convincingly saved the ugly and foul driven fights with Hussein and Sanchez. Even when Pac wasn't 100% he beat those guys either by KTFOing them out or by a UD with huge margin. He might have taken a few easy opponents but they were in between hard fights as in the case of Velazquez and Solis, the former being a tough hombre and the latter an undefeated Mexican champion. So if you really think about it, they were not actually easy fights, it's just people put many at a higher level. JMM on the other hand had a string of easier fights in Salido, Polo, Jandeang and supposedly Jaca who turned out to be a hard nut to crack. Like I said, Barrera and Morales are the only ones worth mentioning and there is no need to hype up Solis and Velazquez (who had 10 losses and never won a belt) for argument's sake.. Not to mention that Pac's performance vs. Solis wasn't good and he had a lot of trouble with Velazquez before he got the TKO..

Janno, how come some of your posts said Pac beat Pac? Isn't it suppose to be Pac beat MAB(or EM). My bad...I was running back and forth while typing 'em. I apologize - didn't have a chance to review. I've already edited those posts. Thanks for the holler, bro.

Janno, how come some of your posts said Pac beat Pac? Isn't it suppose to be Pac beat MAB(or EM).

Marquez has fought at a high level with more people. Beating Barrera aswell, and also Gainer and Peden, losing a disputed decision to Chris John, while getting a draw in the first match with Pac, basically outboxing him after the first round, and now fighting Juarez. Pac is known for beating the same two people after fighting them over and over at the twilight of their careers.... Actually, Zahir Raheem got to Morales first, after Morales had already beaten Pac and Barrera wasn't so over-the-hill in the first match as he definitely is now, but even then he was already battle worn.. Marquez is without a doubt one of the most technically sound boxers in the last 10 years and drew (thanks to a wrong scoring) against Pac in their first meeting. JMM won most of the last rounds and seemed to give Pac a boxing lesson but most of those rounds were closed and could have gone the other way. It is not as if JMM dominated Pac and won the fight clearly and there is no way he could have won 11 rounds of those rounds. The fight was a draw and let's leave it like that. Gainer was also in the twilight of his career when he beat him and Peden atlhough became a champion and had a 2 successful title defenses after that wans't really at the level of Pac. And since MAB is already a washed up fighter when JMM fought him, the fight was close enough that other boxing oundits believe that MAB should have won it. So why give JMM a free pass and not Pac? Pac is known for beating opponents twice? As far as I know it was only MAB and Pac whom he beat back to back. Pac beat MAB in their 2nd fight but the rematch was warranted because it was a close fight. Even if they didn't fight the 3rd time, Pac was still ahead because EM beat him into a pulp, so he still have the edge. MAB was beaten and it was a total anihilation, so even if the rematch last night didn't happen, Pac was still ahead by a long shot. Nobody was saying Erik is already a beat down fighter before he fought Pac. Zaheer Rahim beat EM alright but it was a boxing match and he didn't hurt Erik. It was Pac IHO who shortens EM career even though the latter won it. Since Pac's official debut in US in 2001, he has beaten most fighters convincingly saved the ugly and foul driven fights with Hussein and Sanchez. Even when Pac wasn't 100% he beat those guys either by KTFOing them out or by a UD with huge margin. He might have taken a few easy opponents but they were in between hard fights as in the case of Velazquez and Solis, the former being a tough hombre and the latter an undefeated Mexican champion. So if you really think about it, they were not actually easy fights, it's just people put Manny at a higher level. JMM on the other hand had a string of easier fights in Salido, Polo, Jandaeng and supposedly Jaca who turned out to be a hard nut to crack.

i think a combination of people who probably have only been following pac and pbf since maybe 2004 have lead to a plethora of ignorance in this thread

Being a better boxer doesn't mean an over-all fighter. Nobody said that.. It means that Floyd is a better overall fighter ^Thanx.. PBF is an excellent fighter hat uses his speed to move in and out and defensive wits to win his game but you can't say that until he fights Pac. What I can say based on their respective skill level and effectiveness, including accomplishments, was that if they clashed at the same weight, it would be an easy fight for Floyd, who makes him look like a novice. Seems to be the established consensus aswell seeing as how Floyd is ranked #1 in the most respectable magazines and sports journalists/analysts' opinion.. Pac is the type of fighter that can take your lights off any time during the fight. So? He can finish an opponent too at a smell of a blood. At 135 it is a 50-50 fight for me, so the only thing that can settle the score if they fight each other. Below that it's all Pac and above that, it's all PBF. At 135 Floyd beat Castillo, N'dou, and Sosa, Pac would not be a problem at all..

I'm a disliker? Wrong. Try again. I see the two fighters, and break them down. Mayweather is the better fighter. No more, no less. YOU are truly a hater Wily Coyote. Their is no rhyme or reason to the things you post in your arguements. You just spew shit out, with no thought. Manny knocking out Mayweather in your alternate universe being the greatest piece of garbage in your vast arsenal of Mayweather haterism. I don't "dislike" Hatton. I "dislike" Hattons chances in this fight. Do you see the difference?

Well this is a biased observation and obviously a double standard. If this is applied to JMM who I think is overrated, who did JMM beat that warrants him to be at #3 on your list? He even struggled against Jaca, a B-class fighter. Marquez has fought at a high level with more people. Beating Barrera aswell, and also Gainer and Peden, losing a disputed decision to Chris John, while getting a draw in the first match with Pac, basically outboxing him after the first round, and now fighting Juarez. Pac is known for beating the same two people after fighting them over and over at the twilight of their careers.... MAB, JMM and Morales were 29 when he fought and beat them, JMM included. MAB was a top 5 P4P when Pac beat him, Erik was still in the top 10 until Manny made him age overnight and JMM is obviously is on everybody's top 10. So what I want to know is why they are suddenly over the hill when Pac beat them? Actually, Zahir Raheem got to Morales first, after Morales had already beaten Pac and Barrera wasn't so over-the-hill in the first match as he definitely is now, but even then he was already battle worn..

No it isn't a double standard, you just don't understand the concept of p4p.. It means that Floyd is a better overall fighter or winner. That if they were in the same division, Floyd would be favored to win. That is all that it means, so displaying your skill is a huge part of the assessment and Pac's lack of skills is made up for with excitement, which he did not show last night. Being a better boxer doesn't mean an over-all fighter. PBF is an excellent fighter hat uses his speed to move in and out and defensive wits to win his game but you can't say that until he fights Pac. Pac is the type of fighter that can take your lights off any time during the fight. He can finish an opponent too at a smell of a blood. At 135 it is a 50-50 fight for me, so the only thing that can settle the score if they fight each other. Below that it's all Pac and above that, it's all PBF.

Wiley.. You wrote: "That was an impressive string of "old Mexicans" that Pac's beaten." ^I then ask you to name more than 2 and you cop-out by telling me that he fought these respective fighters more than once, and then give me some subjective opinion about you thinking that Pac beat Marquez, even though he didn't. Therefore, my point still stands since you were unable to name more than two of the same over-the-hill fighters who were both out of there primes and far removed from their younger years. Moving the goal post. He beat two of the same old fighters. Beating up on old men over and over is not impressive. The fact that they are HOFs makes it notable, but not impressive. Because you love overstating so it seems. A "string" of fights with the same old fighters yes, but no fresh blood. I already took that into consideration, so what? Well this is a biased observation and obviously a double standard. If this is applied to JMM who I think is overrated, who did JMM beat that warrants him to be at #3 on your list? He even struggled against Jaca, a B-class fighter. MAB, JMM and Morales were 29 when he fought and beat them, JMM included. MAB was a top 5 P4P when Pac beat him, Erik was still in the top 10 until Manny made him age overnight and JMM is obviously is on everybody's top 10. So what I want to know is why they are suddenly over the hill when Pac beat them?

AN AMATEUR? HE WAS THERE FIGHTING WHILE MARCO WAS THERE RUNNING AROUND AND HUGGING. WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT. Barrera was imitating both Hatton and Mayweather.

Wrong....Pac is not wild. He is very wild, especially after he gets hit with a good punch..

This is probably the same kind of misunderstanding that got you into trouble on the Pavlik/Taylor fight. In trouble? I was hardly concerned with the outcome of that fight you loon, try again..

CAPSLOCK MEANS SERIOUS BUSINESS! true story

The difference is that Floyd is actually a better boxer than Pac.. It usually is smart boxing on his part, but Pacquiao has limited tools. PBF is actually a decent finisher when he gets his opponents in trouble, he just doesn't waste punches and stays accurate. Pac is wild.. So of course when he has a boring fight it is actually worse because there isn't even any real craft behind his caution. He was just tentative last night and let the older man control the pace.. Wrong....Pac is not wild. A complete misunderstanding of the evidence right before your eyes. This is probably the same kind of misunderstanding that got you into trouble on the Pavlik/Taylor fight.