Attention Mayweather fans.......

The reason why so many of us here on boxingscene.com do not label Floyd Mayweather Jr. as an all time great is because most of us have been watching this sport for more than 2-3 years. All time great is an elite position that only a small percentage of fighters have ever achieved. Getting established as an all time great means that you've made a permanent mark on the sport, and that without your presence the sport would not be what it is today. There's only one way to become an all time great, and that's to constantly fight the best opponets possible. Pick any all time great off any list and I guarantee you they not only fought the best in their era, but they have victories over other established greats. I also guarantee you that if you removed them from the history of the sport, the sport would not be the same afterward. I don't think anybody who's been watching this sport for over 3 years (or over the age of 18) could make a compelling argument as to why mayweather is an all time great. He is the greatest of his era, that much is for sure and nobody can take that away from him. But who has he beaten who is a shoe-in to the list of the greatest fighters ever to lace up the boots? De La Hoya? He lost in every big match he ever had and was a far more sucessful businessman than boxer. Castillo, or Corrales? While both men are tough as nails and have my utmost respect, nobody could logically argue that either of them were some of the best to ever do it. Gatti? The man was always a C level bar brawler with little in the way on actual boxing talent and he won't even make the hall of fame, same goes for Carlos Baldomir. Zab Judah? Exciting prospect that never had the mental toughness to fully commit himself to an opponet who didn't "spark" him. Do I need to pull out Hernandez, Mitchell, Corley, etc...? Bottom line is this, Mayweather is the greatest of his era and that much will always be his. But unless he beats Hatton, Cotto, Mosley and Williams there's no way to make an argument for him being an all time great. The only way for him to be an all time great is to wipe out his the entire division of all logical competition. Because none of his opponets were ever on anybody's list to be an all time great, because none of them (aside from De La Hoya's win over a deflated and old Chavez) ever beat another all time great. Accept it for what it is: the truth. Stop calling us "haters" and whatever other lame shit you like to throw around, we're veterans of the sport and we call it like it is. I'm sorry if this is unacceptable to you but in time you'll forget all about it.

Comments (20)

Your post was very well thought out. I am not much of a Floyd fan, but you said "In order to be an ATG, you have to beat other ATG's" don't you consider Castillo and De La Hoya to be Greats? Certainly an argument could be made for De La Hoya, I think I'm in the minority for not considering him an ATG. So I can give Mayweather that, because most boxing experts seem to agree on De La Hoya making the list. I just didn't think he deserved it since he failed in his biggest fights against Trinidad (even though I know he beat him 116-112), Hopkins and Mosley. Castillo is a different story. I'd certainly consider him one of Mexico's best but I don't think he makes the list of ATGs. And certainly I give Floyd more credit for beating a prime Castillo, than I did Hatton for beating a shot one.

18y ago

Lazy_Liberal

but of course, no one beats el terrible in his prime other than MAB... What about Guty Espadas? Morales got a belt for Christmas.

18y ago

Fox_McCloud

you couldn't discipline a dog with two legs. and being white and having black fighters on your banner doesn't give you a free pass to denigrate the best black fighter of our generation. next time you open your fucking mouth about floyd know what the fuck you're talking about. What kind of a sick fuck would discipline a dog with two legs? How could it possibly do something deserved of being disciplined, I mean, it can't even really walk effectively.

18y ago

Hyperion

Don't worry Hyperion, I disciplined him for you by stealing his lowly 1,000 points. That's what he gets for calling me racist. A white guy who just so happens to have a banner with 3 black fighters in it. lmao...well done...

18y ago

Slotff

Your post was very well thought out. I am not much of a Floyd fan, but you said "In order to be an ATG, you have to beat other ATG's" don't you consider Castillo and De La Hoya to be Greats?

18y ago

SkillspayBills

You know why SRR will most likley never be relieved of his position as the greatest fighter to ever live, even though his record has 19 losses BEFORE he first retired his record was 131-3-1-1, and 2 of those were disputed. Just think about that REALLY let that sink in and those were against top level opponents. These days fighters don't have to or need to fight that many fights. The time to accomplish an accolade as an alltime great is virtually shorter so I see it as beating AT LEAST 3 certified hall of famers/legends/great fighters and do something that people can say noone ever did or was unbelievably hard to do.

18y ago

ringer

Well I'm tired as hell, I just finished watching "Friday Night Fights" and I'm going to bed. I'll respond tomorrow morning or afternoon sometime. Good discussion guys.

18y ago

SkillspayBills

You get labled an all time great from 2 different criteria, ability and opposition. Floyd has all time great ability, and he is well on his way to getting the opposition to have him labled one, we all know he will be remembered as one when he retires, it's so obvious it will happen.

18y ago

ringer

maybe your right but there isnt a single fighter that has had an entertaining fight everytime they fight ya boy calzaghe isnt always entertaining Truth. Hopkins is an even comparison I'd say. Although he hasn't captured as many titles in as many different divisions as Floyd has, they're very similar in terms of being notorious gymrats who are very tactical fighters. Both Hopkins and Mayweather seemed more exciting to most people at lower weight classes. I still find them both exciting only now from a technical aspect with the way they're able to avoid an opponet's offense. Except for Hopkins/Wright, that shit was boring.

18y ago

ringer

18y ago

don't care about his past fights, he should be entertaining in his current fights and he's not. maybe your right but there isnt a single fighter that has had an entertaining fight everytime they fight ya boy calzaghe isnt always entertaining

18y ago

El_Jesus

agreed, this is one of the best threads in the recent memory of nsb No it isnt and ill tell you why. In reality, this post is just a retread of an argument that will never end until mayweather loses or people just get tired of talking about him. How many times do we have to argue his resume, who ducked him, who he ducked, who didint fight him, who is overrated on his resume, who is underated. This thread really isnt different than shit we have been reading for YEARS that hes been at the top. Regardless, what annoys is me is pretty much the fact that alot of these people keep talking about how they respect his skill but his opposition isnt good enough. Pretty much the ONLY reason YOU DO respect his skill is through the opposition hes faced. Looking good against competition that matters in title fights that matter are how a fighter is rated skillwise. I could tell you that i think Berto's skills make him an alltime great, but you would tell me i was a fucking moron because his competition hasnt warranted enough for me to say that. If i told you a great NCAA football player is an alltime great in college because of his skill, youd only say that due to the top competition that player faced to make him that skillwise. There are lots of guys with speed, ko power, and fast hands, but what have we seen them against to make us think all of that is worthwhile? You cant sit here and say someones SKILLS exclusively make someone an alltime great, or someone has the potential to be an alltime great exclusively because of skill, but the only reason you say that is due to the nature of the competition they have faced. No one, and i dont care what your damn opinion is, no one can say mayweathers competition hasnt been against top opposition, unless of course your plan is to spout bullshit about how Oscar really isnt an alltime great, when he obviously is. Or your plan is to take away the fact that he fought both undisputed champions at 147, or your plan is to underrate mayweathers resume at 130 and 135, which your entitled to do, but your not saying or doing anything different than what we have all read and heard before. This thread isnt some godsend of humility and intelligence, its just the same thread remixed and repackaged and re-done, and basically any mayweather thread until the Hatton fight ends is going to be in this category.

18y ago

ringer

you and your friends obviously have not seen all or even a majority of floyd's fights.. try watching him against hernandez, chavez, n'dou, corley, gatti, judah, etc.. Mayweather was extremely exciting to watch at 130lbs. He's still exciting but just lacks the KO power, which is expected of any normal 130lbs guy fighting guys at 147-154.

18y ago

Most of my friends watch boxing and have been since they were kids. None of them find Mayweather entertaining....i dont know anyone who could call his fights exciting. Yes he rolls and slips punches and counters, but that gets boring after 5 minutes. i want to see guts, determination, skill, power, aggression....not just shoulder rolls and 12 rounds of boredom. you and your friends obviously have not seen all or even a majority of floyd's fights.. try watching him against hernandez, chavez, n'dou, corley, gatti, judah, etc..

18y ago

ringer

18y ago

ringer

are you sure youre ready to have a pet rat???? I figure I can take good care of him, I'll just put his little ass in my laundry hamper. Maybe show him a 30 second Mayweather clip everyday if he's really good. I'd definitely have to leash him up though, he's liable to attack white people since we're all racist, might gnaw off a leg. Uh oh, he's attacking Mexicans now. Watch out bro, kid is fierce.

18y ago

ringer

That's a fine statement. Water tight. DWiens is one of the more intelligent and respectful people to join in recent memory.

18y ago

Hyperion

AHAHAHA! I love this guy! Can I keep him as a pet? are you sure youre ready to have a pet rat????

18y ago

Addison

This type of shit doesn't get my hater label... it's the, "WTF is Floyd doing on the P4P lists, he hasn't fought anyone!!11" shit that gets the hater label. I think right now Floyd is an all time great, but only from the standpoint of ability, certainly not accomplishment. That's a fine statement. Water tight.

18y ago

ringer

I thought so, fucking storm-front homo always spamming the board with your mayweather hate. kick rocks kid, you have just been :owned: AHAHAHA! I love this guy! Can I keep him as a pet?

18y ago