Only in Germany..........!!

Watched the Abraham - Miranda fight..............what a joke! The referee was a joke too.............yes he is a yank, but he had no idea what was going on and he took the easy way in favouring the local!! That "headbutt" perhaps was intentional, but it would have to be a very light intentional...............the ref, ah ah....doesn't know what to do so he speaks to supervisor and they work out what to do!!...what a joke!...in the meantime, he gives Abraham 5 or 10 minutes to be stay with the doctor and work on injuries he received from the fight which had nothing to do with the headbutt!!!!...that is illegal.......2....the ref then decides to take 2 points from Miranda!!...that is a joke, at worst 1 point... rest of the fight, any punch to the body was deemed a low blow, and penalties were given at will..........most of the time it was abraham going back and punches hitting his forearms and sliding low to his belt line!!..................once again, a crap referee looks to the easy way, and 1. gives abraham more time to recuperate and 2. takes more points off miranda!!... at the end, I can't really see what Abraham did to win that fight!!....ran all night, tried to win the fight in 20 secs or so per round, which doesn't usually fool the judges in the U.S...and he wins............ if we ignore Mirana losing the 5 points, Miranda still would have lost...........what a joke!... Most people seem to ignore this and say that Abraham is a warrior, and I say, yes he is...but this is not about him, but about the fight and the decision............I don't believe the referee and supervisor, judges, etc are paid out by the promoters, i just believe they are overawed by the situation!! I don't think I've ever seen a referee so uncertain as to what to do ....soft headbutt to side of head, so he gives the fighter many minutes to look at another injury and recuperate etc....................... last but not least, never ever have I seen in the states, this, the doctor cheering on a fighter!!!....so much for being a doctor and or being impartial!!... as i said, only in germany!

Comments (20)

At the end of the day: 1) Abraham is still the undefeated World Champ 2) Whoever saw the fight knows that Abraham is more powerful 3) Abraham showed that he has heart 4) All the haters can get as mad as they want. I dont give a fuck. Abraham is still the undefeated middleweight champion of the world!!! The only thing true is that Abraham is still the offical undefeated IBF World Champ. Anyone who saw the fight (even you and Vanes can't argue) that the ref screwed Miranda. If the same fight happened in America with out the control of Sauerland having everyone in his pocket, the result would have been TKO for Miranda in Rd 5. And even if they allowed the fight to continue regardless of the doctors and Abraham decision to stop, Miranda would have won the UD easy. Abraham is a warrior to continue, but he did NOTHING to win the fight. He will never lose in Germany if he fights again. Bring his ass to America without the German ways and he will get destroyed.

19y ago

Googler

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

There is no way that Neumann can know what kind of an injury is caused by a butt to the back of the head. and neither can the doctor they can only ASK the fighter if he can continue. THIS IS A VERY GRAY AREA ESPECIALLY due to the circumstances It's black and white. Intentional foul that causes injury Intentional foul that does not cause injury. The only injury to Abraham was noted as being caused by a punch by the referee himself. The Headbutt was not severe and did not cause injury. You were wrong, and were quoting the wrong rule. After several pages of denial, you changed your story and started to insinuate there was an injury. The fact you flip flopped alone illustrates how desperate you are to avoid admitting you were wrong. You were reading the wrong rule, and were speaking from ignorance. Deal with it and move on.

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

You don't know that there was no injury. You are assuming this. You didn't post a correct rule you posted a rule that partly relates to either Dq's or deductions. There is no middle ground unless the guy leads with his head and its an unintentional foul that causes injury. Sorry you are not correct no matter how much you want to think this. You don't assume there is an injury. That's just plain stupid. The reff stated the injury to his mouth was NOT from the headbutt. There was NO mention of any other injuries. You're making it up and suggesting the possibility because you can't admit you were wrong. And this is now instance #7 of me pointing out you quoted a rule from the wrong section. This couldn't be anymore simple. An automatic point deduction occurs only when an injury stems from the intentional foul. THIS WAS NOT THE CASE HERE. There was no noted injury. Thus any deductions are to be relative to the severity of the foul itself. It's a different rule, for a different situation. You calimed you couldn't see a difference at 1st. When you realized there was one you (in a small minded fashion) started crying about a mystery injury caused by the butt. Come off it. This is a complete comdey show now. You're outright wrong, and it's been proven over and over.

19y ago

VanesBoxing

Only in Germany... an amazing fight that will be remembered for years to come. http://myspace-336.vo.llnwd.net/01212/63/33/1212583336_l.jpg

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

If i thought i was wrong i would admit this. I am not, you are. Hence we are arguing. You just can't take an argument.You were probably always told that you were always right and were one of those know it all kids.:nonono: You started out completely oblivious to the fact you had the rule mixed up and said if I pointed out where the correct rule was you'd admit you were wrong. I posted the correct rule 4 times before it sunk in, and then you compeltely changed what you thought happened to try and sink it up with the injury rule. There is no argument here. You were wrong, it was pointed out, and you've been verbally squirming around like a child now for pages and pages. There was no injury that was caused specificly by the foul. Thus, the two point deduction that applys to injuries caused by intentional fouls DOES NOT apply. Again, all you're doing now is embarassing yourself.

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

I agree it wasn't but depending on the way you interpret injury it was BY THE BOOK> we may not like it and you can call me wrong but if Miranda goes to court to file a motion or whatever that is precisely how Neumann, the Supervisor and the IBF will defend the decision because lawyer talk is lawyer talk. Rather then calling me wrong find a similar fight to show this so called "black and white" That headbutt was clearly blatant and intentional and could have cause a # of serious injury rather then slight injury (and i have said this before you were just too busy to read my posts since you think so highly of yourself) but the ref has no ability and neither has the doctor to determine if there is a concussion and what not. For that they would need to stop the fight and check AA they couldn't so the two points was the best they can come up with in terms of the IBF rules. Blah blah blah. Wrong. There was NO INJURY TO INTERPRET from the foul. Period. Get it though your head. You were wrong about the rule, and you're embarassing yourself. Going to court... stopping the fight to check for injuries... you should start a comedy routine. I've never seen someone stoop so low to avoid admitting they're wrong.

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

i didn't make anything up. You ignored it when i wrote about the implicit fouls because you felt like you are right and keep arguing a point that is based on your interpretation. the term "severity of the foul" is not the same as the "severity of the injury" otherwise they would say "severity of the injury" i.e. if teh injury is slight or none like with AA then they would say this. You are reaching new lows here. The term "severity of the foul" is the only one that applys here, because THERE WAS NO INJURY stemming from the foul. Thus the section you keep quoting is WRONG because it DOESN'T APPLY. This is and has been black and white. You quoted the wrong rule, and maintained your ignorance for several pages before this latest "there was a small injury" story got dreamed up. There was no injury stemming from the foul, which was not severe in the slightest. This headbutt: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b246/crazyvince/miranda.gif was NOT deserving of an automatic 2 point deduction any way you look at it, INCLUDING misquoting the IBF rules.

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

Ok in that case ask somebody to hit you right in that area behind the ear. If it doesn't hurt then you are right if it does then taht is an injury. a sligth and none recurring one but that is why the action is stopped. As i said you are not the IBF supervisor and your interpretation of the rules is not relevent. You couldn't be anymore sad. You spent the first five pages of this thread ignroing the fact you had the rule mixed up and misquoted. Now out of nowhere, you're changing your story to invent some invisible indistinguishable injury from the butt to make it tie in the rule you didn't realize you'd misquoted. Give it up. Seriously. There was no seperate injury from the butt. It was a very small headbutt and it did NOT cause any specific injury. 2 points was excessive and NOT mandatory for that foul. You were wrong. Deal with it and move on.

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

The fighter is given a break because he was not only headbutted but headbutted to the back of the head. That is an injury. A slight one but one that has to give the guy a break in case the shot is painful which it could have been because it hit right on that area behind the ear. LOL! Can you stoop any lower? Can you sound anymore pathetic? If the fighter can continue then there is an auto 2 points deduction. Sixth time: No there isn't, because there was no injury from the butt. You don't know what you're talking about, and are continiously quoting the wrong rule because you're upset you were proven wrong. An automaic 2 point dedcution is if the foul causes a cut or injury. The headbutt did NOT cause any injury, and you're now resorting to making one up. You have NO IDEA about any pain behind his ear. His jaw was broken by a punch, not a headbutt. You confused the rule, and have been desperatly trying to deflect from that ever since. There was no injury caused by the butt, thus no automatic deduction was called for. You are wrong. The longer you go without admitting it, the more desperate you look.

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

It was intentional that means auto 2 points by IBF rules. Injury is implicit.:boxing: No, it doesn't. We've been over this 5 times, and you were proven wrong after the 1st time. There was no injury from the butt, as was stated directly by Neumann after it happend. You continue to quote the rule under the "Injury (cuts)" section of intentional fouls. This makes you wrong, and misinformed. Directly above that section it states the point deductions or DQ depends on the severity of the foul. The headbutt was FAR from severe, and in any other fight would have earned a warning or a 1 point deduction at worst. You're wrong, and have been referring to the wrong rule. It's really sad to see someone so stubborn and unable to admit they're wrong.

19y ago

Bozo_no_no0305

The foul was SEVERE it was INTENTIONAL it was not accidental and there is implicit injury with each one. Hence you are incorrect. You get more desperate with each post. The headbutt wasn't severe in the least. Intentional has nothing to do with you misquoting the IBF rules and then being unable to admit you were wrong. You were outright wrong, and you acted like a child when you got called on it.

19y ago

restless_438

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/jack0818/r_9_400.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/jack0818/r_92_400.jpg http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/jack0818/Abraham_Miranda_Kampf4.jpg

19y ago

moochi

This will be a legendary bout that they will talk about for years to come. It was old school 50 years back when they let it bleed without as much as an afterthought. fk man, gee you get carried away very easy!!.. AA deserves credit, but tell me what did he do!!...he fought on with a broken jaw!!...many other fighters have done this also....many many!...felix sturm did it from round two till round 10 recently!!.. the thing here, is that AA fought on because he knew all he needed was to run and survive those last 8 rounds and he'd get a decision!!....and that is what happened!!...

19y ago

Pantera2000

He didn't put his life at risk IMHO. if AA really wanted to quit he would take a knee and get counted out. his trainer can't fight for him. I think miranda would do the same as AA. These guys live boxing. Its not like they have a diff life they go back to after that. Its not like journeymen who need their health to take last min fights. Furthermore though you don't agree AA did well by not getting hit and though he didn't win many of the later rounds (i gave him 2) the fouls were the turning point. A superstar highly skilled boxer does not need their health, but a journeyman does? What planet are you on? So If Abraham never can fight again you think the right choice was made? Do you realize that he was rushed to the hospital after the fight and went through over 3 hours of surgery and was in ICU for 24 hours (and by the way ICU in Germany basically means that you are considered in danger of death). I have heard from many people that this severe of an injury is hard to recover from and box the same again. And you say the fouls were the turning point. What fouls? The 1 or 2 unintentional low blows (not groin shots, just barely below the belt enough to be considered low). And the headbutt.... the ref was gonna let this slide without points until Abraham walked to his corner (without the refs permission) and acted hurt by the headbutt. And even if you find 1-2 points in total to be acceptable, you do not think Abraham should have been at the very least warned for holding and rabbit punches? No way around it, the ref was as biased as I have ever seen and gave Miranda no chance to win this fight.

19y ago

Pantera2000

Miranda's trainer would have never let him continue in that situation. For God's sake I didn't think any human would put someone's life at risk against Doctor's orders with that severe of an injury. Abraham says he is happy now, but let's see what happens if he never fights again. This very well could be a career ending injury. If it had ended in the 5th, he would have most likely rebounded quickly and had a successful future.

19y ago

Pantera2000

Yes... I have always heard the rumors, but damn I never dreamed it would to be this level. And this was just the fight, how about all the other stories that happened up to the fight? The scale at the weigh in was tampered with before Miranda could weight in, etc... Now we also all know why Sauerland refused to let the American public watch this fight. The more Americans that see it, the more it will be made public how corrupt they are and NOBODY will go there to fight again. I bet if they offered Miranda $2,000,000 to come back for a rematch he would say 'fuck you'! I know I would if I were him!

19y ago

El_Jesus

Here's a question, would the ref allow Miranda to continue if he had been in the same condition, or would he quickly halt the fight and give Abraham the win? Think about that one. I think both of us know the answer to that. Just dont fight in Germany, period, its not worth it. I wouldnt do it.

19y ago

moochi

Here's a question, would the ref allow Miranda to continue if he had been in the same condition, or would he quickly halt the fight and give Abraham the win? Think about that one. thats a silly question!....even sauerland would say of course!!.. but nobody wants to answer my questions: 1. when has anyone seen a doctor cheering for a fighter??? 2. when is a fighter allowed to have a break for a foul, and have treatment on an injury sustained during the fight (legitimate injury)?

19y ago

Kid_Achilles

Here's a question, would the ref allow Miranda to continue if he had been in the same condition, or would he quickly halt the fight and give Abraham the win? Think about that one.

19y ago