Harder puncher, Liston or Foreman?

[Marchegiano]

Liston, George never learned the proper form and his power-line tends to be ****. It's why he got rope-a-doped. if his power-line wasn't **** rope-a-dope doesn't work.

[W. Ledochowski]

Absolutely Foreman in my view, bigger, heavier, stronger and more powerful... I also don't see how Liston had better technique or more snap in his punches...

Liston was as slow as Valuev, a very slow and telegraphed jab, his left hook was better... Young Foreman was faster, and although he like to throw haymakers and looping bombs to annihilate his opponents, when he wanted he used straighter punches, a very good jab too...

I don't see how Liston was more technical, Foreman had much more raw power and heavier hands... Neither are the hardest punchers ever in my opinion, not Foreman, let alone Liston...

[Marchegiano]

You lot are having the wrong conversation.

Explosive?

Heavy Handed?

Those are delivery systems, the bomb is the powerline. You can have all the speed and strength in the world, if your punch structure is off the force is going to newton's cradle through your body to the point where the powerline is off and disperse, losing precious force.

That said, separating them into categories is needless and only serves to muddy the conversation. He with the most consistent and pure conservation of momentum and energy with the smallest hand to disperse that energy hits the hardest.

It's basic physics. When you hit, what you're hitting pushes back and if you haven't formed a solid connection through your body to absorb the reaction you're losing power where others are not.

[The Old LefHook]

You lot are having the wrong conversation.

Explosive?

Heavy Handed?

Those are delivery systems, the bomb is the powerline. You can have all the speed and strength in the world, if your punch structure is off the force is going to newton's cradle through your body to the point where the powerline is off and disperse, losing precious force.

That said, separating them into categories is needless and only serves to muddy the conversation. He with the most consistent and pure conservation of momentum and energy with the smallest hand to disperse that energy hits the hardest.

It's basic physics. When you hit, what you're hitting pushes back and if you haven't formed a solid connection through your body to absorb the reaction you're losing power where others are not.

That is just about right. Very Good.

[W. Ledochowski]

You lot are having the wrong conversation.

Explosive?

Heavy Handed?

Those are delivery systems, the bomb is the powerline. You can have all the speed and strength in the world, if your punch structure is off the force is going to newton's cradle through your body to the point where the powerline is off and disperse, losing precious force.

That said, separating them into categories is needless and only serves to muddy the conversation. He with the most consistent and pure conservation of momentum and energy with the smallest hand to disperse that energy hits the hardest.

It's basic physics. When you hit, what you're hitting pushes back and if you haven't formed a solid connection through your body to absorb the reaction you're losing power where others are not.

Foreman got "rope-a-doped" (if it wasn't fixed) because he fought without patience, didn't pace himself and threw predictable looping punches that could be better absorbed...

How many times did he hit Ali flush on the chin? Two, three? This was also a bigger, heavier, and much more durable Ali compared to the skinny cruiser from the 60s...

Liston would've got stopped before the 8, without gassing, by that Ali, never hurting him...

Foreman's power is MUCH more proven against better, heavier and legit HWs, far harder and more durable targets, not only on 175 pounders and cruisers from the 50s and 60s...

[juggernaut666]

Foreman got "rope-a-doped" (if it wasn't fixed) because he fought without patience, didn't pace himself and threw predictable looping punches that could be better absorbed...

How many times did he hit Ali flush on the chin? Two, three? This was also a bigger, heavier, and much more durable Ali compared to the skinny cruiser from the 60s...

Liston would've got stopped before the 8, without gassing, by that Ali, never hurting him...

Foreman's power is MUCH more proven against better, heavier and legit HWs, far harder and more durable targets, not only on 175 pounders and cruisers from the 50s and 60s...

Liston has only fouggt about 2 guys over 220 ,one was Wepner known to be a tough punching bag . Im not sure where anyone thinks Liston hits harder? Put the same oppents in and switch them around and Foremans % goes up while Listons would go down . I would also use 90's Foreman with shorter technique and heavier hands ....maybe when Foreman was in his teens Liston hits harder but thats not the case here.

[Marchegiano]

Foreman got "rope-a-doped" (if it wasn't fixed) because he fought without patience, didn't pace himself and threw predictable looping punches that could be better absorbed...

How many times did he hit Ali flush on the chin? Two, three? This was also a bigger, heavier, and much more durable Ali compared to the skinny cruiser from the 60s...

Liston would've got stopped before the 8, without gassing, by that Ali, never hurting him...

Foreman's power is MUCH more proven against better, heavier and legit HWs, far harder and more durable targets, not only on 175 pounders and cruisers from the 50s and 60s...

I don't know what to say to this. I'm going to try to be respectful, but I don't have much respect for what you just said.

I used physics to explain the lack of energy transference in Foreman's punching and your response to that is fanboy theory about energy absorption? Really? Really pal?

Him big doe! Him strong doe!



I'm not terribly opposed to Foreman being seen as the harder hitter, but I am firmly against the conversation you lot were having prior to my arrival. When I said you're having the wrong conversation, that was the nice way of calling you all dummies arguing over points that don't prove anything beyond fanboy semantics.

That said, if you reckon Foreman, great, but if you don't have anything to say that deals with physics, kinesiology, or at least boxing basics recognize you are out of your depth, and learn something.


Foreman fight big man, Foreman strong! give me a break.

[juggernaut666]

I don't know what to say to this. I'm going to try to be respectful, but I don't have much respect for what you just said.

I used physics to explain the lack of energy transference in Foreman's punching and your response to that is fanboy theory about energy absorption? Really? Really pal?

Him big doe! Him strong doe!



I'm not terribly opposed to Foreman being seen as the harder hitter, but I am firmly against the conversation you lot were having prior to my arrival. When I said you're having the wrong conversation, that was the nice way of calling you all dummies arguing over points that don't prove anything beyond fanboy semantics.

That said, if you reckon Foreman, great, but if you don't have anything to say that deals with physics, kinesiology, or at least boxing basics recognize you are out of your depth, and learn something.


Foreman fight big man, Foreman strong! give me a break.

Foreman fought the better chinned guys and MUCH better record guys...its not hard at all to figure out. If you go to ANY statistic of ANY champion you would see the Heavier the opponent is the more the k.o percentage drops on average, i don't know why you guys fight a blatant fact? Who hits harder? Well really do the math...foreman more mass,more speed and more WEIFHt beghind those sluggish bombs as opposed top listons lunges,he wasn't even as accurate as foreman ,most boxers were.

[rightsideup]

I don't know what to say to this. I'm going to try to be respectful, but I don't have much respect for what you just said.

I used physics to explain the lack of energy transference in Foreman's punching and your response to that is fanboy theory about energy absorption? Really? Really pal?

Him big doe! Him strong doe!



I'm not terribly opposed to Foreman being seen as the harder hitter, but I am firmly against the conversation you lot were having prior to my arrival. When I said you're having the wrong conversation, that was the nice way of calling you all dummies arguing over points that don't prove anything beyond fanboy semantics.

That said, if you reckon Foreman, great, but if you don't have anything to say that deals with physics, kinesiology, or at least boxing basics recognize you are out of your depth, and learn something.


Foreman fight big man, Foreman strong! give me a break.

I can't agree more. Ali skinny cruiser? he was a solid 210 pounds when he fought Liston . He may have been smaller earlier in his career but people reach there peak weight at different times of there life. I am sure he was not much heavier for the foreman fight. I agree Foreman ended up fighting bigger men and many with better chins but in Sonnys era people were smaller.We will never really know how he would have done against Foreman's opponents because time machines are fictional. Foreman and Sonny sparred together and had a mutual respect for each others power. That's all I need to know. Both hit a ton. Just with different technique. Its just like criticizing Louis for taking 13 rounds to knock out conn in the first fight. He fought an elusive fighter who was tough. When Conn put on weight for the second fight he may have looked more buff but he certainly was not as elusive.

[them_apples]

Listons jab was not telegraphed, it was damn near perfect. He taught george how to throw a jab.

Ali in the foreman fight was what? 2 lbs heavier than his prime? skinny cruiser of the 60's was a lean ferocious version from the 70's. He had more experience in the 70's but the 60's version that fought Liston would have clowned Foreman sorry.

I am gonna say it again too..these men were not smaller, they trained differently. They trained down in weight, not up. they were big framed men. Thy trained for boxing and stamina, conditioned themselves to box, not lift weights and look huge. Ever see Ali in that interview beside prime Tyson? he dwarfs Tyson.

You people have never boxed. Liston would have been 210 lean with great dexterity and stamina, or 230 of pure muscle or 270 of all fat. It all depends on how he trains. What matters most is skill. Boxing isn't wrestling and the biggest dude in the heavyweight division is almost never the best so I don't know why people keep blowing that horn.

Liston was a heavier framed man than 90 percent of the heavyweights today. His fists were 15-16 around his reach was longer than Deontay Wilders. whats funny too is wilder was 219 lbs against his title fight in stivern. The dude is 6'7. You telling me a 212-215 lb ali is a small man? bulking does **** all in boxing.