What makes Ray Robinson better than Ray Leonard?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Better power, higher ring iq, more versatile...

Ray Leonard was more of a boxer whereas Ray Robinson was a boxer-puncher who could box on the outside to score points as well as brawl for knockouts.

[GhostofDempsey]

Leonard's two greatest wins of his career were against Benitez and Hearns. His rematch with Duran was not Duran at his best. Hearns got robbed in the rematch.

Not to take anything away from Leonard, he was a great boxer, but Robinson was way more durable, and only one loss via TKO when he couldn't answer the bell vs. Maxim as a result of heat exhaustion. In 200 fights no one KO'd him across three weight classes (the equivalent of 5 weight classes today).

Robinson could also fight backwards, had superior ring generalship, and was a better fighter from a technical perspective as well.

[Anthony342]

Leonard's two greatest wins of his career were against Benitez and Hearns. His rematch with Duran was not Duran at his best. Hearns got robbed in the rematch.

Not to take anything away from Leonard, he was a great boxer, but Robinson was way more durable, and only one loss via TKO when he couldn't answer the bell vs. Maxim as a result of heat exhaustion. In 200 fights no one KO'd him across three weight classes (the equivalent of 5 weight classes today).

Robinson could also fight backwards, had superior ring generalship, and was a better fighter from a technical perspective as well.

So then, basically, everything, Everything made Robinson better.

[OctoberRed]

Most of the old-timers wont event place Leonard on the list of all-time greats, because he only had 40 fights. (39 if you want to reject that Camacho farce)

[Anthony342]

Yeah, but 40-60 fights is par for the course after about the 1940s, so that has to be taken into account. Plus the detached retina and avoiding of Hagler, leading to multiple retirements, also shortened his career as well.

[billeau2]

longevity is the big one. leonard had a very short career for a bonafide all time great. robinson had 200 fights. won the MW title five times after one of the greatest runs ever as a WW. fought jake lamotta, a middleweight, six times as a WW, only lost once. victory over an all time great, prime WW named kid gavilan.

he also hit harder than leonard. robinson was one of the hardest punchers ever. had a straight up iron jaw. stopped once in 200 fights, via heat exhaustion in a 100 degree arena, up on the cards in the 13th, and against he LHW champion of the world. they had to replace the ref in the 10th after he collapsed. legend has it that it was 104 degrees in the arena.

great combination puncher, maybe the best ever. great jab. great footwork. he wasn't the toughest fighter in the world to hit, but he had a great chin and could change gears and box if he had to. most complete fighter ever. oft cited as having the best resume by a stretch.

so yeah. there's all of that. just look at the guy's record knowing that he sometimes fought twice a month.

leonard has a great resume himself, but it's top heavy for a bonafide top 20 all time great boxer. leonard had a short career cut off by an injury to his eye. he also made a lot of money early in his career and didn't need to keep boxing, so he stopped for a while.

He was deeper. Leonard relied on his talent more than depth of technique, similar to Ali. He was great at it. They will both get hit plenty against each other. Robinson will slow Leonard's legs by the middle rounds. He threw a lot more body shots than Hearns did. The harder punches would begin to tell.

Two Great posts... they won't let me give green k anymore... Dimensions are relative to the dimension of the observer, so if I am a flat drawing everything I see is a line... well... Leonard was from the dimension of most boxing men, multidimensional with a great instinct, speed, and gifts. From the perspective of Robinson Leonard was, much like Jones, one dimensional... a fighter relying on raw gifts, instinct and a few tricks. Unlike 99.9% of the boxing world it was never a question of what Ray Robinson could do, it was a question of if there was anything he could not do.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Longevity......

[Ascended]

Look up him vs sammy angott george cliff tony freddie valentine andy nonnels and tony ancona Dykes,same obsolete tech and flaws as the older one that fought gene/jake/joey and others

Ray and this era look to be very overextending a lot of times to the body and are very hesitant in most movements. They don't fight from range much,they leave themselves open a lot of times, and a lot of times they will just throw to the body and not protect themselves. The Carlos era were able to protect the body with 1 hand while punching to the body. along with all the other advances in movement, along with being way smoother in movements the ray era They use mostly counters when up close. The lateral movement is very basic. They don't seem to be able to punch from range while doing it smoothly. They have to stop then punch most of the time. Their feet are mostly tiptoeing.

[DooGee#33]

Robinson was taller, more rangy, quicker feet, similar handspeed, the difference being Robinson's flurries carried concussive power in every punch he threw. Ray Leonard's flurries were flashy, made for TV but amateurish shoeshine intended to sway novice judges. Robinson had the better chin and more durability.

Leonard could hit with good power when he set his feet to throw hard but Robinson didn't have to get set. He could glide backward, stop on a dime and loose a lefthook before his opponent knew what was happening.

Robinson dominated the Welterweight and Middleweight division for years before he started to lose fights. Show me a Welterweight that beat him and I'll show you someone that doesn't exist.

Ray Leonard was a great fighter at his peak. He had some big victories but also got his a$$ whipped by a former lightweight at 147. Albeit a great one. Ray got his a$$ kicked in Montreal. His defacto hometown had it close fraudulently.

SRR had to beat killers more than once. Gavilan 2x, Costner 2x, Bell 2x, Fritzie Zivac 2x before Ray reach his prime.

In a nutshell Robinson was better at the sport of boxing than Leonard. He proved it as much as a man can prove it. SRR is one of the few legends who the closer you examine their careers becomes more impressive than previously thought.

[Willie Pep 229]

I can see SRR and SRL trading wins over a trilogy. It would take a top effort from both fighters and that can be hard to repeat.

I can't see either fighter sweeping three straight fights from the other.

Would lay off betting wise.