Don Turner on Marciano

[billeau2]

If I'm not mistaken, and I know I'm not, Armstrong started out at featherweight.I would argue Coralles was a big banger at any weight and Floyd destroyed him.because a fighter doesn't have power doesn't mean he can't compete. Case and point, Billy Conn.

It kills me you're making me defend Floyd.

Lol Ive been in that position here many times... Where one becomes the "Devil's advocate." I feel ya Jab

[JAB5239]

If I'm not mistaken Floyd fought Corrales at 130?
If you want to compare Corralles to Henry Armstrong go ahead but I'll sign off at that junction.

Billy Con got knocked out in the end. A better example could be Pep but Pep threw more punches than lil' Floyd did......at welter!

Ray

Doesn't matter if Conn got knocked out at the end or the discrepancy in fight from 130 to 147. The point is Floyd showed an ATG skillset. I'm not arguing he would be an ATG at 147, only that he would be a top fighter. You say he wouldn't because he couldn't punch. I've outlined a few fighters (and could keep doing so) that disprove this theory. Floyd is a douche, but to deny his skills is insanity. I'm a firm believer skills have been lost over time, but Floyd is not a fighter I would say that about. I respect your opinions Ray, but I disagree on this.

[JAB5239]

Eddie Futch said that he had seen Floyd Mayweather make moves that he hasn't seen anyone make in 50 years.

Floyd's skills are legitimately old school, he is a living link to the training methods of a bygone era.

A special fighter without a doubt. No matter what Don Turner says.

We all have our opinions and preferences. None of us can prove a thing. But to turn a blind eye, that's just careless in my opinion.

[JAB5239]

Lol Ive been in that position here many times... Where one becomes the "Devil's advocate." I feel ya Jab

It's the worst!! There are so many things I could rag Floyd about and have. But being objective, you gotta give him his due. It's the same way I feel about Wlad (albeit different reasons), but there comes a time when you just have to give in and realize your emotions don't dictate a fighters greatness or worth.

[billeau2]

It's the worst!! There are so many things I could rag Floyd about and have. But being objective, you gotta give him his due. It's the same way I feel about Wlad (albeit different reasons), but there comes a time when you just have to give in and realize your emotions don't dictate a fighters greatness or worth.

Exactly. It just does not feel good at times but its true. Heres something that sometimes misses certain individuals...Trainers often use hyperbole, correctly to make a point. Like I am sure that Turner thinks Floyd is a great fighter but he is trying to point out something about fighters from that time and what was necessary. It does make sense even if Floyd would not be dead in the water necessarily. Great pressure fighters like Armstrong particularly could walk through a guy if he didn't have the power to make him think twice.

[billeau2]

"Mayweather would be ok at 130, he could be a speedy boxer in most era's and at 130 his speed added to his punching ability".

Don't you read posts you comment on?

At 130 he would have a better chance however he would not be a great fighter against great 130 pound men. Can you see him in with Armstrong or Ike Williams, I can't, they came to fight. That's Turners point is that the current guys come to win by decision but rarely look to dominate. The men in the past who were high caliber competitors look to beat the sh*!
out of you and have the goods to do it.

Mayweather fought well in his prime but at 147 he didn't fight he looked to counter move and counter punch. He would have been booed out of the venues if he fought like that back then.

Ray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2pu2qo5o3c

I want people to take a look at this fight and ask: How would a guy who could not gain the respect of Hank keep Armstrong from pulverizing him? I won't mention any fighter by name...but with a little imagination one can see where a problem would be for a fighter who "could not punch." Ross' experience is telling here as well obviously. But more to the point an atg pressure fighter, or an atg puncher would have been a very interesting addition to Floyd's career.

[Ray Corso]

"I want people to take a look at this fight and ask: How would a guy who could not gain the respect of Hank keep Armstrong from pulverizing him"?...............................................

Can't anyone here understand the difference between Mayweathers methods to Ross's!
Ross FOUGHT....he was in close with Hank he fought back, Mayweather doesn't have power but most importantly doesn't have the heart to get inside and work!
In that era Mayweather wouldn't get used because it's AL:L about a live gate and people getting there money's worth.

In the video you see Ross move right to Hank and accept the challenge when the hell do you see a 147 Mayweather do that? If the Maidana first fight was held in the past era's Mayweather losses. He ran like a little girl! You can't perform 35% of the time and win.

This is an old discussion and it continues to bore me.
The 1976 Olympic team influenced me in my training methods as much as Louis and Robinson did.
I'm not paying to see Mayweather at 147 just counter move and counter punch one at a time.

If you think he's sliced bread then it''s your sandwich to enjoy.
I know against Robinson Floyd would be toast!

Ray

[OCPancho]

"I want people to take a look at this fight and ask: How would a guy who could not gain the respect of Hank keep Armstrong from pulverizing him"?...............................................

Can't anyone here understand the difference between Mayweathers methods to Ross's!
Ross FOUGHT....he was in close with Hank he fought back, Mayweather doesn't have power but most importantly doesn't have the heart to get inside and work!
In that era Mayweather wouldn't get used because it's AL:L about a live gate and people getting there money's worth.

In the video you see Ross move right to Hank and accept the challenge when the hell do you see a 147 Mayweather do that? If the Maidana first fight was held in the past era's Mayweather losses. He ran like a little girl! You can't perform 35% of the time and win.

This is an old discussion and it continues to bore me.
The 1976 Olympic team influenced me in my training methods as much as Louis and Robinson did.
I'm not paying to see Mayweather at 147 just counter move and counter punch one at a time.

If you think he's sliced bread then it''s your sandwich to enjoy.
I know against Robinson Floyd would be toast!

Ray

Floyd had to pay Maidana NOT to wear 8 oz Evelast gloves with horse hair padded knuckle.
What would have he done if he saw someone try to wear 6 oz Ben Lee gloves ? FULL horse hair padding, unlocked thumbs and no thumb guard ???
Never mind that they used adhesive tape freely then.

[OCPancho]

Didn't Barney Ross beat Ceferino Garcia with one good arm ?

[OctoberRed]

Floyd had to pay Maidana NOT to wear 8 oz Evelast gloves with horse hair padded knuckle.
What would have he done if he saw someone try to wear 6 oz Ben Lee gloves ? FULL horse hair padding, unlocked thumbs and no thumb guard ???
Never mind that they used adhesive tape freely then.

I forget if he paid him for both fights or only the first?