Comments Thread For: Nunes: Ronda Rousey Was Overrated, UFC Made Her Like That!

[Anthony342]

You really don't have to agree with me lol. I respond to people who make intelligent arguments. Juggernaught and I share some opinions and also some disagreements about the fighting methods of antiquity. I respect anyone who makes a good argument. It also happens frequently that when specifics come into play people agree on a lot more than thought.

judo is a great example of that. The difference between guys like Draeger, and john Blume (Oyama's student in karate, also did Judo) and modern Judoka who will tell someone "you can't do that in a tournament" is night and day. The post war police force in Japan was trained in Judo, with the benefit of many of the Ju Jitsu guys still around...These guys were alleged to walk into a bar brawl, or other situations with unruly sailors...and clear the bar out.

But to articulate the point that MMA as a sport depends a lot on strength and other non martial arts related qualities makes a lot of sense. Interesting aside: You can search far and wide and until macheda came on the scene, you will not find a karate stylist fighting in these tourneys with the gracies and in mma. You see a lot of bouncing up and down, kick boxing, but no karate. When Macheda brought, of all the arts, Shotokan into the octogan, he showed how karate can be applied. He also studied other arts of course, they all have to do so.

And because of Lytoto's success, at least earlier in his career, more karate black belts have made their way into MMA.

[billeau2]

Actually, not many guys used gloves until about UFC 4. Then Tank Abbot in UFC 6 and Don Frye in 8 started to make using gloves more popular.

I don't remember but makes sense... I forgot if they used gloves in that tape, I think they just used tape on the hands.

[billeau2]

Yeah, agreed. If you wanna see another pretty good judo fighter in MMA, check out some Karo Parysian fights online sometime. He's been in the big two promotions before, UFC and Bellator.

your quite the historian Anthony. Can you think of other judo guys who did a pretty good job? There is a lot of cross polination between sports Jiu Jitsu guys and Judo... Back when I was a younger man judo clubs all had jiu jitsu programs for self defense... Judo people would claim the Goshi kata taught all the self defense needed! I used to go by Walli Jay's place in Sam mateo.

[billeau2]

And because of Lytoto's success, at least earlier in his career, more karate black belts have made their way into MMA.

I profess that despite my lack of interest in MMA, despite helping train guys in it, there are certain fighters I love to watch...Rich Franklin, and Macheda are two of them. I also liked to watch Helio at times.

[Anthony342]

Is there even any filmed footage of Helio. I know he's e legendary pioneer of BJJ now, because he made it so a smaller fighter could use his techniques. Speaking of Gracie, did you see Royce vs. Ken Shamrock last year in Bellator? I don't know what Shamrock's problem is or what he intends to prove, but now he wants another rematch because he lost from a shot to the groin, Ken Buchanan style. So now Royce might be pulling a Duran and not giving a rematch haha. The difference here is both guys are old and way past prime though.

[billeau2]

Is there even any filmed footage of Helio. I know he's e legendary pioneer of BJJ now, because he made it so a smaller fighter could use his techniques. Speaking of Gracie, did you see Royce vs. Ken Shamrock last year in Bellator? I don't know what Shamrock's problem is or what he intends to prove, but now he wants another rematch because he lost from a shot to the groin, Ken Buchanan style. So now Royce might be pulling a Duran and not giving a rematch haha. The difference here is both guys are old and way past prime though.

Not Helio, I got the wrong gracie...it was the first gracie in the ufc, Royce? after Rorian. They have some footage of the match where he fought to a draw with Kimura, I don't remember if that was Helio, it was the father of the clan. But there was another match where his arm was broken allegedly, and i have not seen that footage.

yeah Shamrock and Royce are bored. Sitting around the house, no doubt with a giant "Honey-do" list...you know "the wife saying: "Honey can you...mow the lawn, fix the sink, hold the picture up while I straighten it, etc, etc, etc" when I get that list frankly I am ready to jump into the octogan!

[Anthony342]

He got his arm broken against Kimura after he wouldn't tap, but the ref stopped it and the Kimura arm lock was born in MMA.

[Anthony342]

With Shamrock, I think it's more pride and ego. He still blames his first loss to Royce on the rules in UFC 1 just because he wasn't allowed to wear his wrestling shoes, but Royce was allowed to wear a gi, claiming the rules favored Royce Gracie. Never mind the fact that Ken was just too focused on getting another ankle lock, like he won with in the previous round against kickboxer Pat Smith, gave up his back and got caught in a rear choke, forcing him to tap in less than a minute, then just did the MMA equivalent of holding the ball and running out the clock in their rematch at UFC 5. The thing is though, Ken actually has a legitimate claim this time. Similar to Duran vs. Buchanan, Ken lost primarily from a shot to the groin. The difference was Royce got to follow it up with hammer fists, while the Duran boxing match was immediately stopped.

Knowing Bellator and that they were willing to put Ken in the cage with Kimbo Slice, they'd probably have no problem putting more old guys in the cage again. It would just be a matter of if Royce wants to do it. I kind of hope he does, just so Ken can no longer make excuses, which I don't think he will, no matter the result, like after the last time he fought Ortiz.

[juggernaut666]

your quite the historian Anthony. Can you think of other judo guys who did a pretty good job? There is a lot of cross polination between sports Jiu Jitsu guys and Judo... Back when I was a younger man judo clubs all had jiu jitsu programs for self defense... Judo people would claim the Goshi kata taught all the self defense needed! I used to go by Walli Jay's place in Sam mateo.

Dave Beneteau was a second degree black belt in judo , though his base was wresting and boxing . His only losses were to Severne and Taktarov.

Don Frye holds a black belt in judo too . His base was boxing then wresting . I remember he fought Judo national champion Yoshida (wore his gi ) in Pride FC and lost ,Frye walked to the cage with his gi on but i think took it off? Still not sure if that was a fixx??? Pride was known to have a few SHADY matches ,it seemed like a go with the flow match to me . Yoshida also has a b.s win on Royce (though lost rematch ) .Yoshida does have legit win against Tank Abbott and Mark Hunt .

[billeau2]

Dave Beneteau was a second degree black belt in judo , though his base was wresting and boxing . His only losses were to Severne and Taktarov.

Don Frye holds a black belt in judo too . His base was boxing then wresting . I remember he fought Judo national champion Yoshida (wore his gi ) in Pride FC and lost ,Frye walked to the cage with his gi on but i think took it off? Still not sure if that was a fixx??? Pride was known to have a few SHADY matches ,it seemed like a go with the flow match to me . Yoshida also has a b.s win on Royce (though lost rematch ) .Yoshida does have legit win against Tank Abbott and Mark Hunt .

Taktarov is Russian Judo (Sambo). Bill Superfoot Wallace also used wrestling to make life misrable for a Judo instructor when he was in the service lol. Wrestlers not only have a low center of balance, they can really extend it. Judo players naturally want a high center of balance to get under.