Overeem's Manager: Reem has a reasonable explanation.

[BEDROOM BULLY]

^

Bedroom Bully,

It would be hypocritical of me to say "let Overeem burn, he's a ****ing cheater!!" and not be fine with him fighting JDS as anyone with half a brain realized he WAS ALWAYS on the stuff. If i go in with a mindset that 95% of the heavyweights in this sport are juicing (and that is probably a fair assessment) i don't see how Overeem is gaining unfair advantages at all.

Nono I don't believe this at all is right..

Are you saying jds is in that 95%?

Roy Nelson? Cain? Etc

Sure others maybe on stuff but I haven't seen anyone go from average fighter to a complete destroyer while also obtaining a body which would make a greek god envious.

[Barry Halls]

yeah i think both Cain and jds are on it. Roy Nelson? Who the hell knows but hes one of the guys i give a pass because hes a nutjob and trains in weird ways. Not because of his bodyfat because it has nothing to do with it.

95% of the good ones. of all hw population probably not that many.

It's really hard to compete with others who take this stuff if you don't. These guys do 2 workouts a day 6 days a week with lots of weightlifting, technique, cardio etc. Some could work up that tolerance, but most wont without peds.

[Eff Pandas]

It's really hard to compete with others who take this stuff if you don't.

People always say this, but its not like using PED's gives you superpowers beyond the normal human. It bumps u up a couple notches from where u are at don't get it wrong, but its not like the best guy in every division is on them or the #10 ranked guy in every division is taking out the champion if he's using PED's.

[-Swizzy-]

American MMA is rife with drug cheats. This TRT exemption that all these fighters are going for now is not hing but legalized cheating.

lol, in a thread about a European MMA fighter who has fought over 95% of his fights overseas and has tested positive for testosterone levels WAY higher than any American fighter ever has.

Not too bright.

Oh and its easy not to get caught for PED's when you're fighting in organizations that don't do any drug tests. ie: all non-american organizations.

[Drunken Cat]

People always say this, but its not like using PED's gives you superpowers beyond the normal human. It bumps u up a couple notches from where u are at don't get it wrong, but its not like the best guy in every division is on them or the #10 ranked guy in every division is taking out the champion if he's using PED's.

Yeah, you're right.

Probably a lot of them are.

But not all of them.

For example, BJ Penn doesn't strike me as a roider. I don't really think JDS is a roider either. I don't think Fedor is or was a roider. I don't see a guy like Aoki as a roider. Many other guys as well, I don't see as necessarily roiders.

Any one of these guys could be roiding, nobody knows, but I don't think they are likely candidates.

Roids afford many advantages. But they don't give you a chin, and they don't allow you to not be submitted. Some drugs do give you pain tolerance. Hell, for all we know Miesha Tate was oxied out of her mind against Ronda Rhousey in order to allow her arm to be bent in such strange configurations there. But the idea that 95% of fighters are juicing is really bullsht, and is probably just an excuse to tacitly support fighters who are cheaters.

I have mixed feelings about Overeem right now. I use to consider myself a fan, but I had my suspicions. It's hard to support the guy at this point in any capacity. I wasn't a big fan or anything, but I did consider him the best HW. Now, all of his accomplishments are tainted. People had suspicions of course, but it is one thing to have suspicions and another to have confirmation. I don't think he deserves the shot. But I'm sure the Zuffa law, medicinal, and PR crews are working overtime right now on how to smooth this one over.

[Barry Halls]

People always say this, but its not like using PED's gives you superpowers beyond the normal human. It bumps u up a couple notches from where u are at don't get it wrong, but its not like the best guy in every division is on them or the #10 ranked guy in every division is taking out the champion if he's using PED's.

No but every single athlete is better on peds than without them.

The main benefit is they will be able to train way more and with more intensity.
Not to mention the benefits of the increased testosterone if you go that certain route.

Peds are fantastic. The big thing to remember though is that those guys often train much harder than those without it, so it's not like you take a pill and it makes it "easy". It's much harder but the benefit is the "much harder" is manageable without breaking your body to a pulp.

[Barry Halls]

Yeah, you're right.

Probably a lot of them are.

But not all of them.

For example, BJ Penn doesn't strike me as a roider. I don't really think JDS is a roider either. I don't think Fedor is or was a roider. I don't see a guy like Aoki as a roider. Many other guys as well, I don't see as necessarily roiders.

Any one of these guys could be roiding, nobody knows, but I don't think they are likely candidates.

Roids afford many advantages. But they don't give you a chin, and they don't allow you to not be submitted. Some drugs do give you pain tolerance. Hell, for all we know Miesha Tate was oxied out of her mind against Ronda Rhousey in order to allow her arm to be bent in such strange configurations there. But the idea that 95% of fighters are juicing is really bullsht, and is probably just an excuse to tacitly support fighters who are cheaters.

I have mixed feelings about Overeem right now. I use to consider myself a fan, but I had my suspicions. It's hard to support the guy at this point in any capacity. I wasn't a big fan or anything, but I did consider him the best HW. Now, all of his accomplishments are tainted. People had suspicions of course, but it is one thing to have suspicions and another to have confirmation. I don't think he deserves the shot. But I'm sure the Zuffa law, medicinal, and PR crews are working overtime right now on how to smooth this one over.

Well Bj Penn is probably one of the guys i would be surprised if he got busted for it, but he's an outlier.

But jds? Why would you be surprised if he was on it? Because he's a good guy?
The guy is built like a tank and train as hard as anyone.

Also don't fool yourself by equating peds = great physique. There's a million different benefits to a million different kinds of peds. Most ped users don't look like Overeem. Not in size or as shredded.

I'm not "supporting" fighters or making excuses when they get busted. I'm just saying i think most are on it. It's just common sense if you compare the ability to train and the physique compared to eras where athletes didn't have these tools accessible.
How could a guy like jds train as much as Overeem if hes not on it?

I don't know. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but with the money involved and the alternatives for these people from poor upbringing i just don't see why anyone would not use it. It's like people thinking Usain Bolt is a clean athlete. It's just no ****ing way.

[Drunken Cat]

Well Bj Penn is probably one of the guys i would be surprised if he got busted for it, but he's an outlier.

But jds? Why would you be surprised if he was on it? Because he's a good guy?
The guy is built like a tank and train as hard as anyone.

Also don't fool yourself by equating peds = great physique. There's a million different benefits to a million different kinds of peds. Most ped users don't look like Overeem. Not in size or as shredded.

I'm not "supporting" fighters or making excuses when they get busted. I'm just saying i think most are on it. It's just common sense if you compare the ability to train and the physique compared to eras where athletes didn't have these tools accessible.
How could a guy like jds train as much as Overeem if hes not on it?

I don't know. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but with the money involved and the alternatives for these people from poor upbringing i just don't see why anyone would not use it. It's like people thinking Usain Bolt is a clean athlete. It's just no ****ing way.

Why I don't think JSD?

I guess to be fair one reason is recent comments by JDS against juicing regarding the Overeem situation:

"If the fight happens I will fight with pleasure, but I can tell if it is proved that the use of illegal substances is disrespect to the sport and something unfair to me. The ratio of testosterone in his body that there may be increased by 30% his strength and aggressiveness of it, I was told people who know the subject. Will really be unfair fight, but as a fighter will be ready to face anyone.



He stated before that he doesn't know what the Nevada State Athletic Commission will do, but he insinuates that if Overeem is indeed licensed, it's a slap in the face to the sport and unfair to him as a fighter. He also re-affirms that he is clean and that the testing needs to be improved:

If the athletic commission and the UFC want I'll fight him. I am a fighter and will be there to fight, but it is sure to be disrespect to MMA and how serious is this sport. This will also be unfair, it will be unfair to me. I've never used these devices to gain strength. I think the right would do blood tests on wrestlers as is done in the Olympics, not the urine, since the blood is easier to detect these illegal substances. We want to know who the best really. No use to be the best liar. Being a world champion making false use of a lot of drugs, that's not being champion. I can clearly say that I am the champion without ever having the use of any illegal artifice in order to get there. I favor more rigorous tests to assess whether someone is doped. It has to be a clean sport and these tests should occur more surprises. If Overeem is more aggressive and stronger the more he will resist blows and it will be difficult for me. If I lose will be unfair. He will not have fought better than I have fought doped."

http://www.bloodyanus.com/2012/4/11/...ut-feels-it-is

But also stylistically, I don't think that he is a guy who relies on cutting corners.

And for the record, I've been saying all over these parts for a long time that I consider JDS to be way overrated. I've always considered the guy to be one of the heavyweights with the most potential out there, but I just think that people have always been putting the cart before the horse with him, and I'm just still waiting for him to prove that he is what everyone seems to think he might be.

But of course, juicing is always a possibility with any top athlete. I just don't think JDS matches the portrait of a guy who relies on juicing. But until the days of better testing comes along, we will never be sure about anyone. I suppose that this is why the clean athletes are so adamant about the need for better testing all the time.

Whether JDS is a clean athlete, I don't know, but his comments do speak for themselves a little.

[Barry Halls]

i agree that 95% is an overstatement. I would be surprised however if more than 50% were clean out of the top20 heavyweights.

Jds statements are about what i would expect a guy in his position to say. Chael Sonnen made some negative remarks towards Overeem too.

If going by the bloodyelbow top20 ranking i would say that the following fighters would/wouldn't surprise me if they're using peds (id be surprised everytime anyone is caught as it's real sloppy)

Not surprised
Jds
Overeem ***
Velasquez
Werdum
Mir
Barnett ***
Carwin ***
Cormier
Bigfoot ***
Schaub
Hunt
Browne
Lesnar
Kongo
Konrad
Kharitonov

Surprised
Nogueira (not sure on this)
Fedor
Russow (not that bodyfat is an indicator, but he just feels sloppy and not like a gymrat at all)
Nelson (because he's a crazy ****er and those are more likely to do their own thing)

*** = 20% = confirmed cheaters. Carwin could technically be considered innocent, but you don't just show up on steroid peddlers customer list without a reason.

[Clegg]

No offence Harry but I think a lot of the arguments you're making in this thread are just guesswork.

To say that those training as hard as Overeem must be on the same stuff is just wrong. You and I may not be able to do it, but there are guys out there who can, especially as not all training is going to be done at full intensity.

I also disagree with the 'peds always make you better' argument.

First of all is that there are different types and some are not going to be suited to the athlete's needs. Yeah, that's obvious, but I doubt every single pro fighter knows exactly what they should take. Secondly is that some of those who have been caught out in the past seemed to have no benefit from it. If anything, Shane Mosley was worse on steroids than he was without them. Vargas didn't show any noticeable benefits the time he got caught either. Jones Jr and Holyfield were helped by it, but I'm not saying it never helps, just that it doesn't always make a positive overall difference.

Also, steroids can make you gain mass and even if that's muscle mass it can do more harm than good. A 265lb JDS wouldn't perform as well imo.