Reparations time. Pay what you owe!!

[QueensburyRules]

Yeah. We know that. Why you brought that up? Some chose to go and some chose to stay in the nation that they built.

- -Slaves, ie former slaves were a small minority sorta like you having a grade school understanding of any topic.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Good convo. I was just thinking the same thing. It's always good to have a convo with you because though I may not agree, you always seem rational and unbiased. That's rare around these parts.

I've been trying to wrap my head more deeply around the idea of taxation for reparations. I think the idea must be something like this:

2 parts to the equation

1. There is likely the idea that those that were responsible for the institution of slavery were the members of the United States government that were elected by the electorate (making this more juicy--that excludes women and blacks), and in accordance with the way our society works, these representatives being an extension of and representing the electorate, means that blame is rightfully placed on the electorate. So by extension, the voting members of society would be responsible for slavery. Afterall, if the people didn't want it, all they would have to do is vote in abolitionists. I guess the idea is that society failed the slaves.

2. Via the social contract a person has with the country, the same way you are to reap the benefits of being a member of the country, you are to also carry the collective burden. This is why those who were not in the country at the time or were not allowed to vote at that time should pay into it.

Being that the country makes money through taxation, the only way possible for there to ever be any (monetary) reparations is through taxation. If reparations for any wrong is never allowed, that's kinda shltty. The government should right it's wrongs the same way citizens are asked to right their wrongs. Since the government has done so for other groups in the past, even making reparations for things that happened way in the past, I wonder why this hasn't been done for what most believe is the most heinous crime of America.

Sorry if that was too long. I do find this topic more and more interesting the more I dive into it. All types of things come up like sovereign immunity. I guess the bottom line for me is that I think it's fair that a country be asked to make amends for any wrongs it has perpetuated, and the only way this could be possible is through taxation.....unless it's something like free education. I actually like that idea better (though I'm sure this will still have to be financed, and that would lead back to taxes I suppose).

But I respect your opinion, and as always, much respect man. Always a pleasure.

Well, I hate to place blame on the electorate many times because I've seen the electorate not being represented by those they elect quite often. Does every politician abide by his/her campaign promises? Definitely not. I'm also not saying that many of the electorate were in favor of slavery. I would imagine some were, although it is hard to say. I'm not sure that slavery was a big issue at the time, considering how much slavery went on around the world. It was wrong sure, but in that time, it unfortunately was commonplace. Thank God it no longer is. So those elected in were most likely elected based on other issues. So for me, this gets watered down tremendously.

As for the social contract, this is a concept I have never grasped onto or found appealing. I never signed the contract obviously and if given the choice, I would not sign it. It is a vague notion with what I believe would be many opportunities for those who are writing the social contract to bend with the times and insist that every member of society do as they say, while of course, these same people would do as they please. That's my suspicion and I have seen cases like this were an environmentalist preaches taking care of the environment and tells the masses what they should do in order to save the planet, while they tour the world in their polluting private jet. So, you see, I would not sign a social contract in fear of what these contract writers would have me doing. Haha.

The government is an ever changing entity. It will never have any guilt and will never feel anything. It is not a person. It is made up of people who were in charge at the time and well, those people surely can be held accountable for atrocities that happened during their time in office. As with slavery, the ones to be punished obviously were the slave owners. However, of course, all of those are long gone. And even punishing their descendants isn't right either. You could have an uncle who was a serial killer but you shouldn't pay for his cimes if you didn't commit any yourself. Really, I think looking more deeply and closely at the current slave trade that is happening and seeking to squash that would be a much more productive and by far more achievable goal. I wish the news outlets would focus more attention on the current slave trade and who is behind it and how we could stop these people. I would love to see that being exposed every single day because that is a crime that could be stopped and damn sure should be.

And your answers are usually long. Haha. But I don't mind that at all. I've noticed on many news shows, that nothing much gets resolved and very little progress is made because they are always strained for time and no one even has enough time to discuss a topic thoroughly. On here, at least we can and I'm always glad for long answers where I might learn something. Very much respect to you, sir. I look forward to your posts because I know they will be very thorough and well thought out. It's quite enjoyable!

[siablo14]

- -Fine if the few blacks in America can trace back those many gens, you the modern 1%ers who will leave your lessor peons in the dust. And when revealed you have Euro heritage mixed in, the debit cancels the credit-accounting 101.

Not to mention so many other variables, not the least being winner take all bipolar political construct with Reps and Dems still dividing the people along the Mason-Dixon Line, only with the Reps controlling the South and Dems the North in an orchestrated swap of skunk stripes.

Civil War II anyone?

You really are quite naive.

it doesnt matter if we are mixed with European blood because back then the mixed folks were still treated as slaves and had no rights.

What am i naive about?

[siablo14]

- -Slaves, ie former slaves were a small minority sorta like you having a grade school understanding of any topic.

The money in the South was made off plantation produce. Even Northern whites invested in slave plantations in the South to benefit from the earnings. The enslaved men and women were paid for their labour and you can go further and see how their descendants continued to be ill-treated and denied the rights that whites had.

[siablo14]

- -Slaves, ie former slaves were a small minority sorta like you having a grade school understanding of any topic.

7 mil to 3 mil isn't really a minority.

[QueensburyRules]

it doesnt matter if we are mixed with European blood because back then the mixed folks were still treated as slaves and had no rights.

What am i naive about?

- -It matters in Euros did not invent black slavery, ancient Africans did, and most any reparation suit with traceable records will trace right back to Africa where the first slaves were traded to the Euros or whomever.

If you want to pursue a costly divisive dead end issue, then that's on you, not me.

Good luck!

[siablo14]

- -It matters in Euros did not invent black slavery, ancient Africans did, and most any reparation suit with traceable records will trace right back to Africa where the first slaves were traded to the Euros or whomever.

If you want to pursue a costly divisive dead end issue, then that's on you, not me.

Good luck!

Trace any form of slavery you can and if you find the links, go demand reparations from the folks who caused the damage.

We are discussing reparations in the context of American slavery. Black enslaved folks worked for free and weren't given any benefits of the production.

[QueensburyRules]

7 mil to 3 mil isn't really a minority.

- -1860 census detailed 1/2 million free blacks, 4 mil slaves, and 27 mil whites with the free blacks split between the north and south with 22 Mil northern whites leaving 5 mil southern whites among most of the 4 mil slaves.

Extrapolating approximately, blacks were less than 1/5th or 20% of the population which is a significant minority.

Minority or majority, what's your point?

[QueensburyRules]

it doesnt matter if we are mixed with European blood because back then the mixed folks were still treated as slaves and had no rights.

What am i naive about?

- -That you were sold into bondage from time immemorial in Africa before the Euros were involved for a few hundred years.

What other part of African history don't you understand?

[QueensburyRules]

Trace any form of slavery you can and if you find the links, go demand reparations from the folks who caused the damage.

We are discussing reparations in the context of American slavery. Black enslaved folks worked for free and weren't given any benefits of the production.

- -They were given room and board and a small wage for their work.

Whites had to pay for room and board with no guarantee of work but that of eviction if they didn't have it, hence the westward migration that was open to blacks after the civil war.

America was a poor country then and even now unable to shake it's substantial poor populace, most of whom are white in spite of being the worlds economic juggernaut.

You should really study up.