The Case For A Creator Documentary

[jkaisen41]

I don't need the teachings of Jesus, or the 10 commandment's to tell me, not to kill, not to rape. The fact that you have to have these written down for you to follow, when it should be natural, internal within you, is absurd.

Violent Prisoners often turn to Holybook's, while in the joint. That's fine, if it helps them become better people, and not a menace of society. However I'm doing just fine without that fairy tales, never been to prison, therefore no need for long, boring ass chapters on what I should or shouldn't be doing.

Whatever floats your boat.

Yeah - you don't need them - that's good for you but as you pointed out some ppl need them... to become better to learn something that obviously they ain't had before... so I still don't get the point why the world would be better without it - even if it is only stories to you - do you mean the same prisioners that you mentioned would change their life if they had a science book in their hand? If you ain't believe in it fine - the example of Jesus helped more human beings on the right track then anything else - if it's just a story to you ok - but I think it is a very useful story and the world shouldn't be without it... looks like we will have to agree to disagree :-)

[The Noose]

I'm just saying that science isn't complete - it's like winning 8 rounds out if 12 - and now you are in the ninth - of course it seems like you winning but one right hand on the jaw and all of the sudden the result is different - it's the same with science - science always changes - not saying that it is false - but if you don't know everything how can you think you know the truth - and even after you found something out to be true it is only true until you find the next new stuff.

Yet with religion or belief in a God its more like - youre in the 9th round, winning the fight....yet there is always the chance that your opponent might change into a giant dragon sing happy birthday to you.

Science works, and is real. Just look at the world around you and how technology, transport, medicine etc dominates our world.
Of course certain scientific theories can be debated and questioned, but science can question science. It critiques and corrects itself.

Science is what gets us closest to truth.

Although the term 'truth' is often used by people talking about their belief in God, its still just belief. If everyone has their own individual 'truths' then they arent really truths at all. Just beliefs.

Yes, they can give life meaning, but science also can make people find their purpose and develop a healthy society without the dogma and conflict which mono theistic religions reinforce.

[jkaisen41]

It depends on how esoteric you want to make your definition of god. If your god is vaguely defined enough then sure, there's no clash between the possibility of god and the observations of science. But it quickly becomes a very pointless sort of god as the gaps close up and disappear.

Again Squeal - I'm not here to knock science or anything - I'm just saying that nothing that Science says is kind of an opposition to GOD - nothing - and I don't mean that it proves it right or has to prove that GOD exists - I never said that - science has it's place and it is very important... some probably got offended by my first sentence because they felt that I said science is BS - not at all - science proves a lot of things - but if you don't have the knowledge of EVERYTHING and I think everybody will agree that science doesn't have knowledge of it all... the end result can be (don't have to be) faulty... right?

So again - if I have giving a wrong impression of it sorry - or if I my english isn't good enough - BUT science isn't the opposite of GOD - many seem to think that you can only believe in one thing because the other thing can't be proven... what do we know - science as we said always develops - it always adds new knowledge - I'm confident and until now I never heard anything that science said that proved GODs words wrong... or that proved that GOD doesn't exist - doesn't mean that science HAS to prove that - but as far as I know about science it only approves what GOD says... so science is not an opposite of GOD...

[jkaisen41]

Said what? What are you talking about? There is no proof of a God, yet alone anything that you think God has said.

It's not up to Science to prove anything wrong that you THINK GOD SAID. It's up to you to prove it right.

Just stop, you're not helping your case.

Again... I never once said it that science has to prove GOD wrong - why should science do that? Science as you guys said tries to explain the world and the universe - what we can actually see - science will never try to prove something like angels, GOD or of that matter and it ain't has to do...

You guys just acting like well... the world is like this - the world was created like this and I say that's fine - that's what science says and if the world was created like that it still doesn't stand against the fact that this means GOD hasn't created like that - Who says that GOD ain't created it with sort of a big bang theory - so if that's what science prooves to you it doesn't stand as a proove that GOD's word is wrong... what is so hard to understand about that? Is it the language or do you simply don't want to understand Cup?

[squealpiggy]

Yet with religion or belief in a God its more like - youre in the 9th round, winning the fight....yet there is always the chance that your opponent might change into a giant dragon sing happy birthday to you.

This is true. Depending on the degree to which you believe your god is active in influencing the world, being strongly religious essentially means that nothing is predictable and everything that happens is ordained purely by the capriciousness of the deity.

Here's the difference between religion and science, illustrated at Richard Dawins' Ted Talks

Now, there's a typical scientific journal, the Quarterly Review of Biology. And I'm going to put together, as guest editor, a special issue on the question, "Did an asteroid kill the dinosaurs?" And the first paper is a standard scientific paper presenting evidence, "Iridium Layer at the K-T Boundary, Potassium-Argon Dated Crater in Yucatan, Indicate That an Asteroid Killed the Dinosaurs." Perfectly ordinary scientific paper. Now, the next one, "The President of The Royal Society Has Been Vouchsafed a Strong Inner Conviction that an Asteroid Killed the Dinosaurs. - It Has Been Privately Revealed to Professor Huxtane That an Asteroid Killed the Dinosaurs. - Professor Hordley Was Brought Up to Have Total and Unquestioning Faith that an Asteroid Killed the Dinosaurs. - Professor Hawkins Has Promulgated an Official Dogma Binding on All Loyal Hawkinsians That an Asteroid Killed the Dinosaurs." That's inconceivable of course.

[THE REED]

There is a difference though. BBT is based on scientific observations, religion is just a leap of faith. A leap which was established thousands of years ago and has not and will not allow itself to change, no matter how much more we learn

Religion thrives and, dare I say it, encourages ignorance.

No need to look for answers because God IS the answer.

I'm with you on that

I'm reading Michael Shermer's "the believing brain" and one of the interesting things he points out is an almost universal tendency to see agency in things. That is to say there is a tendency to ask what things are "for", even when they very obviously have no intrinsic purpose. A child might say that a flat rock is "for" skipping it over the lake or that a long stick is "for" a dog to chase or that a cow is "for" milk.

So you say that the ozone layer is "for" protection, when in reality it isn't actually "for" anything, it's a consequence of light energy from the sun striking the O2 molecules in our highly oxygenated atmosphere and causing it to react to form O3 molecules. The same chemical process takes place with lightning strikes, you can smell the ozone after a thunderstorm.

I can actually accept that response... although it seems coincidental... it's at least a logical explanation.

No... you aren't ignorant *lol*

Well you know this is an important question - and you can never think about something like that long enough...

With you I have the feeling that you one day actually will find something... I think your on your way because you asking good questions... you can tell a lot about human beings if you look at their questions - I think you are on a good way

Yeah man... I'm not out to solve the universe, just look at things and make the most common sensical observations I can...

[squealpiggy]

Again Squeal - I'm not here to knock science or anything - I'm just saying that nothing that Science says is kind of an opposition to GOD -

Depending on how specifically you define god. Does god create bolts of lightning? Well no, we have a scientific explanation for that that requires no angry deities and no hammers for the resulting thunder. Did god punish the world with a giant flood? No, because if he were to do so we would have evidence in the geological record, and that's without going into the impossibility of any species surviving a bottleneck of two individuals (not to mention the question of where the water came from!). Essentially the only version of gods that are actually compatible with science are ones which do not have any influence or presence in reality. And if your god does not influence and is not present in reality then it is, for all intents and purposes, non-existent. In other words you make your deity vague to the level of pointlessness.

[cupocity303]

Yeah - you don't need them - that's good for you but as you pointed out some ppl need them... to become better to learn something that obviously they ain't had before... so I still don't get the point why the world would be better without it - even if it is only stories to you - do you mean the same prisioners that you mentioned would change their life if they had a science book in their hand? If you ain't believe in it fine - the example of Jesus helped more human beings on the right track then anything else - if it's just a story to you ok - but I think it is a very useful story and the world shouldn't be without it... looks like we will have to agree to disagree :-)

I was speaking in general. Practically, it's impossible to rid the world of Religion(s). In general we would be better off. There still would just as many violent people as there are today, with or without Religion.

But for every Convict who bettered their life, with the help of turning to a Holy book, there are twice as many others who use it to manipulate others, to do horrible things. There are those who think they're justified in killing others and that God will reward them in the afterlife, because of reading a Holybook. The fact that they believe in Afterlife at all, gives them incentives to be reckless in this life. You said, that if you weren't religious, you may turn to drugs. Strange logic. If you believe that you are immortal, then you don't have to take care of yourself, by eating right and staying fit. Those who think that this is the ONLY life we have, have incentive to take care of their bodies, and staying healthy. As far as being morally good, that should come internally, and we have Societies Laws to keep you in check from Murdering, stealing, if it isn't enough.

If Religion wasn't there and if we all were neutral, there would be less of the **** going on around the Middle East. Natural Law would kick-in and collectively, people MIGHT come around on the idea that women should have equal rights in the Middle East. Whether in Islam or Christianity, both teachings are degrading to women in one form or another. Females are the first ones who should get off of these Ancient Fairy tales. There is nothing in it for them.

But it's impossible. Some of you people are predisposed to believing in these things. Some of it has to do with Fear of Death I suppose. P.S., why am I getting myself dragged into these, - Paragraphs-getting-longer-and-longer-after-every-post, type exchange. It doesn't get anywhere unless I'm insulting you and making fun of your beliefs, THEN AT LEAST IT'S FUN FROM MY END.

[The Noose]

Yeah - you don't need them - that's good for you but as you pointed out some ppl need them... to become better to learn something that obviously they ain't had before... so I still don't get the point why the world would be better without it - even if it is only stories to you - do you mean the same prisioners that you mentioned would change their life if they had a science book in their hand? If you ain't believe in it fine - the example of Jesus helped more human beings on the right track then anything else - if it's just a story to you ok - but I think it is a very useful story and the world shouldn't be without it... looks like we will have to agree to disagree :-)

I think the point is that the positive aspects of religion unfortunately carry with them the negative harmful ones. Story telling has always been a way for humans to pass on inspirational messages, ethics, social responsibilities etc, but with religion there is also condemnation, bigotry, blind obedience.

Maybe "treat others how you would want to be treated" is more powerful if people believe it comes from God. But it shouldnt be merely obeyed. It should be understood. So these prisoners that desire discipline, and a moral code could possibly find it through intelligence and education rather than obeying a religion. Or maybe thats too optimistic.
Ultimately the goal should be for all people to do the right thing without needing the fear of God as persuasion.

[jkaisen41]

Yet with religion or belief in a God its more like - youre in the 9th round, winning the fight....yet there is always the chance that your opponent might change into a giant dragon sing happy birthday to you.

Science works, and is real. Just look at the world around you and how technology, transport, medicine etc dominates our world.
Of course certain scientific theories can be debated and questioned, but science can question science. It critiques and corrects itself.

Science is what gets us closest to truth.

Although the term 'truth' is often used by people talking about their belief in God, its still just belief. If everyone has their own individual 'truths' then they arent really truths at all. Just beliefs.

Yes, they can give life meaning, but science also can make people find their purpose and develop a healthy society without the dogma and conflict which mono theistic religions reinforce.

Nice that you joined in Sir... I always read your posts with great interest - call me a fan of your posts :-)

Absolutely - you are right with this - science questions itself and it should otherwise there would be no advance... I absolutely agree... now you will say well if you see that - why don't you see that religion has to develop right :-)

In this world absolutely and science has always been there - it doesn't matter at which time or age - there were always human beings who were kind of doctors... starwatchers and stuff absolutely... always been like that but AGAIN Noose - that doesn't prove anything wrong that GOD has said or I believe him... absolutely science is what brings us closest to the truth through evidence and tries... and again... nothing that science says, says there is no GOD - I mean even if you prove how everything started - this world and universe to 100% - that doesn't prove that GOD (who we believe created all of this by his powers) ain't did all that or? Science will prove everything right what GOD said... that's my point - this is not GOD against science - but science will always be faulty or can be faulty like you said - because it will test itself... it doesn't have the knowledge of it all...

Science in many instants probably would be better to develop a society but that is because ppl don't listen or understand the word of GOD anymore - GOD is the best life education that you can have - his teachings won't help you understand math or something for that you have to go to school - but when it comes to living with and loving each other - it as good as any science system you can have in my opinion...