Game of Thrones [TV] Master Thread

[ИATAS]

I still don't get it.


Bran caused Hodor's seizure this time around...ok. That I can follow. But what caused it the first time? Bran wasn't even alive back then.

Bran has always caused it. That's the paradox. You can't think of time being linear anymore once time travel is applied; time is connected here meaning that all things in time are happening at once. This is what I mean when I said its a closed loop and that even if Bran wanted to, he can't go back and "fix things" because they already happened.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

Bran went Terminator/Inception on Hodor

[ShoulderRoll]

Bran has always caused it. That's the paradox. You can't think of time being linear anymore once time travel is applied; time is connected here meaning that all things in time are happening at once. This is what I mean when I said its a closed loop and that even if Bran wanted to, he can't go back and "fix things" because they already happened.

So Bran can affect the past as long as he does something that doesn't change it?

But if he tries to do something that would change it then he can't affect the past?

[ИATAS]

So Bran can affect the past as long as he does something that doesn't change it?

But if he tries to do something that would change it then he can't affect the past?

Whatever Bran thinks he's doing to change something, already happened. Take the end of the article I posted:

"[Bran] has free will in the sense that, if you don't know what's going to happen, you have a choice," Carroll said. "But after it happened, no one has free will."

In other words, Bran had a choice until he made it.

"From a physicist perspective, you have free will to the extent that you can make choices," he added. "But in the sense that those choices need to be consistent, you do not."

The past already happened, it's set in stone, the ink is dry. Bran can't change it. If Ned's head got chopped off, Ned's head got chopped off. If, let's say as an example, he goes back to the beheading and tries to stop it, whatever he does will just have the same result of Ned's head getting chopped off.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

i just read a theory that Sansa might be pregnant with Ramsey's kid

[Psylence83]

i just read a theory that Sansa might be pregnant with Ramsey's kid

Wouldn't suprise me, he rode her quiet often!

[RightJab]

So to further this comment of mine obviously we're entering free will versus destiny and ****. I just found this from a theoretical physicist that sides with how I interpreted it:

Tech Insider spoke to Sean Carroll, a theoretical physicist at Caltech who studies time.

"Bran is in two places at one time, or rather, two times at the same time," Carroll said.

Bran's powers create a bridge between the two time periods.

"He's in the past with young Hodor, and somehow there's a connection made between the young Hodor and Hodor in the present moment," Carroll explained. "And with the fear of zombies catching them and running away, somehow that all gets transmitted to the younger Hodor, so young Hodor goes into a seizure."

Whoa. Hodor, Hodor.

"Young Hodor is getting an impression of holding the door and that's giving him a seizure, and henceforth he can only say 'Hodor,'" Carroll said. "He goes on to serve the Starks, later becoming the very person sending that mental impression to his younger self."

So did Bran change the course of history in Westeros?

"The short way of saying this is, he didn't change the past, he affected the past," Carroll said. "There's only one past, and only one Hodor that had that seizure."

[...]

"Interestingly, once you allow time travel into your universe, rather than saying everything that happens has as source," Carroll explained, "you're asking that everything is consistent, and that everything is actually information circling around in time without a source."

This is known as a consistent causal loop. People in later times come back to alter the events of the past, but this is consistent with how these events later play out, creating that future that sends back the time travelers.

Contrast that with an inconsistent causal loop, which occurs in Back to the Future. Marty and Doc's meddling in the past changes the course of history, causing some time travel-induced family photo editing. Unlike a consistent loop, this — along with the classic "become your own ancestor" trope — is a time-travel paradox.

[...]

"[Bran] has free will in the sense that, if you don't know what's going to happen, you have a choice," Carroll said. "But after it happened, no one has free will."

In other words, Bran had a choice until he made it.

"From a physicist perspective, you have free will to the extent that you can make choices," he added. "But in the sense that those choices need to be consistent, you do not."

http://www.techinsider.io/game-of-th...physics-2016-5

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I think Bran and 3ER can tap into Weirwood.net which essentially records history and what he can "see" in the past is all connected to the Weirwood network. Most of these trees were cut down so he's limited to certain areas (they were widespread and covered everywhere until the invasion of Westeros by the Andals/Faith of the Seven ****s) so what he's seeing is recorded history, the ink is dry. 3ER/Bloodraven already said he tried to change the past and it's not possible.

There is a new theory I'm working on for the end game and it's kinda mind blowing in a sense but I don't want to talk about it just yet. But I assure some of you, changing the past to fix things isn't it. Sure, maybe there will be a couple other Brann/Hodor moments, where he "effects" the past which already happened (closed loop, time paradox), but it wont be "fixing" anything. Bran is extremely important but not the sole character I would say. His role is going to be something crazy but I believe his role is to be a bridge between The Nights King and someone/something else. There was an old pact that was broken...there's more to the White Walkers than simply kill humans and GRRM has confirmed it's not going to be so cut & dry about what is evil and what is good.

I get where you're coming from regarding Bran. No altering the past, But he can learn from it, and use that knowledge to manipulate the present, future events due to his knowledge of occurances in Westerosi history.

Yes, on 4/5 occasions over 7 years he has said the WW or not necessarily what they seem.

What I wonder is, in the ceremony where the CoTF are creating a white walker, is that man whom had what appeared to be Obsidian/Dragonglass put into his chest the Nights King, was he the 1st one made? (If so that would make him the 1st of his kind/name thus the NK).

Then who is he? Did they just pick a random unlucky guy, or was he a 'somebody'? It would have been thousand(s) of years ago that ritual occurred. So was he on of the first ever 'First Men'?, a leader of them? A Stark?(their blood goes right back to the very very fisrt men to arise).

I read a theory Starks and WW share blood, or a past, or the pact made was with a Stark (they're the Kings of Winter). There's that rule/saying that a Stark must be at the Wall and in Winterfell.

So I wonder is that man Bran The Builder or the leader/one of the 1st hero's of the First Men - so in a way the WW do share blood with the first men couldn't you argue?
You can take you're tinfoil hats off now fellas, as that idea is a bit 'out there'. Plausible though imo...

[Mooshashi]

Bran has always caused it. That's the paradox. You can't think of time being linear anymore once time travel is applied; time is connected here meaning that all things in time are happening at once. This is what I mean when I said its a closed loop and that even if Bran wanted to, he can't go back and "fix things" because they already happened.

Notwithstanding all this causal loop stuff, can't we just get more dragon, war and **** in these shows?

Regarding dragons, I rate the alpha dragon in Reign of Fire, with Smaug and the big GOT dragon tied for #2.

[ИATAS]

What I wonder is, in the ceremony where the CoTF are creating a white walker, is that man whom had what appeared to be Obsidian/Dragonglass put into his chest the Nights King, was he the 1st one made? (If so that would make him the 1st of his kind/name thus the NK).

Well for what it's worth, the actor that took the dragonglass in the chest, is the same actor who plays The Nights King. That's pretty solid evidence in my book they created the first nights King.

Then who is he? Did they just pick a random unlucky guy, or was he a 'somebody'? It would have been thousand(s) of years ago that ritual occurred. So was he on of the first ever 'First Men'?, a leader of them? A Stark?(their blood goes right back to the very very fisrt men to arise).

Could be Bran the Builder. Could be a Stark. Could be some random first men. With the theory I've got going in my head, it was a Stark.

I read a theory Starks and WW share blood, or a past, or the pact made was with a Stark (they're the Kings of Winter). There's that rule/saying that a Stark must be at the Wall and in Winterfell.

So I wonder is that man Bran The Builder or the leader/one of the 1st hero's of the First Men - so in a way the WW do share blood with the first men couldn't you argue?
You can take you're tinfoil hats off now fellas, as that idea is a bit 'out there'. Plausible though imo...

I don't think it's out there at all, I think it's not only plausible but likely. As I mentioned earlier, Bran, imo, will be a bridge to the Nights King/white walkers. There will be a new Nights King to remake the pact and his blood will be of Stark.

[MaD RoBoT]

From what i remember, in the books the Night's King is not the 1st WW. It's only the show canon that made him the 1st one. In the books, the Night's King is the brother of King in the North (Stark) and a former Lord Commander of NW. That was the time the NW headquarters was at Nightfort, not in Castle Black. The Night's King fell in love with WW woman and took her as her queen. Everything goes into **** until the King Stark decided to ally with the King Beyond The Wall to defeat the Night's King and cast them out.