Liberal leadership and you get this

[15round]

It amounts to an elementary mistake in logical thinking. Laws are based on the idea that in the final analysis they benefit the most and cause the least harm.

Unfortunately the idea that a criminal May be punished excessively and has to be protected is thought to be part of this idea but it's not and It ultimately causes victims and good people who are brave to suffer.

it may suck if someone tries to break in a car and shot dead but you know what? Too f****** bad. And criminals have told policy makers that they respond and abide if they think they will meet resistance. So if we take this idea of the least amount of harm and the most amount of good and we use that same example of the poor car thief who is shot dead it actually makes more sense because it incentivizes criminals to do other things. And this is what criminals say.

I don't think someone should be shot unless they are breaking into a car with someone in the car.

[15round]

NYC has always been not only one of the safest big cities in the US, but one of the safest big cities in the world.

Try to sell the idea that NYC is safe to anyone living there.

[travestyny]

Try to sell the idea that NYC is safe to anyone living there.

I live in NYC. I don't feel unsafe.

That was easy.

[Eff Pandas]

Try to sell the idea that NYC is safe to anyone living there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._by_crime_rate

Play around with the per capita crime rates in various US cities on this wiki & get back to me.

Spoiler alert: Mobile, AL has a higher murder rate than NYC. NYC ranks 80th (out of 100). Anchorage, AK has a higher rape rate than NYC. NYC ranks 85th. Wichita, KS has a higher aggravated assault rate than NYC. NYC is 57th. Even in property crimes NYC isn't that scary. Tulsa, OK has a higher burglary rate than NYC. NYC is 100th. In overall crime rate Albuquerque, NM is #1, NYC is 95th. I get bigger numbers are scary, but its the bigger rate thats scarier.

[Dr. Z]

crazy what is happening to america atm

Sad is a better word. The liberals run the most cites over 200,000 people which are tuning into well ... we see these cities in the news.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I don't think someone should be shot unless they are breaking into a car with someone in the car.

I honestly don't care. When you cross the line to take someone else's property, whatever happens to you is fine with me.

[billeau2]

I don't think someone should be shot unless they are breaking into a car with someone in the car.

Its not that "they SHOULD be shot." Rather it is the idea that, if one does something that is wrong and their punishment winds up excessive, how should we deal with that situation? For example (true story) people jumping a fence in San Francisco and stealing things, glass and nails are put on the top of the fence (visible) as a deterrent. Person still tries, cuts themselves and is critically injured: Do we...

1. Say "kind of serves you right."
2. Sue the property owner making the criminal the victim?

The property owner should not IMO have to consider the criminal's well being under these circumstances. It does not mean that the property owner intends to injure deliberately...

[15round]

Its not that "they SHOULD be shot." Rather it is the idea that, if one does something that is wrong and their punishment winds up excessive, how should we deal with that situation? For example (true story) people jumping a fence in San Francisco and stealing things, glass and nails are put on the top of the fence (visible) as a deterrent. Person still tries, cuts themselves and is critically injured: Do we...

1. Say "kind of serves you right."
2. Sue the property owner making the criminal the victim?

The property owner should not IMO have to consider the criminal's well being under these circumstances. It does not mean that the property owner intends to injure deliberately...

I think what I heard is if you do something like this with nails on the fence. You need to post "NO TRESPASSING" AND "DANGER KEEP OUT" signs. It should take care of most lawsuits. But if the danger is hidden and unexpected with no warning, the property owner could be in hot water. Shooting someone would be an unexpected event but maybe if owner had signs all over that would be in their favor. It depends on circumstances. Was it dark? Where did it occur on the property? If it was near the street or sidewalk at the edge of the property line it is going to difficult to prove it was justified. If it is close to an entry of the home or building that is different. If close to the home that favors the owner, but if it is close to a storage shed where there is no threat to the owners the criminal would be likely viewed as a victim, especially if you did not post signs.

I am not going to shoot someone unless they are a danger to me or family. I don't want to give up my assets and cash I have accumulated for something like that and I am not sure how I would feel shooting someone who was not a danger to anyone. It isn't like somebody is going to break me if they steal something anyway. What would piss me off is if it had sentimental value. That stuff cannot be replaced.

[billeau2]

I think what I heard is if you do something like this with nails on the fence. You need to post "NO TRESPASSING" AND "DANGER KEEP OUT" signs. It should take care of most lawsuits. But if the danger is hidden and unexpected with no warning, the property owner could be in hot water. Shooting someone would be an unexpected event but maybe if owner had signs all over that would be in their favor. It depends on circumstances. Was it dark? Where did it occur on the property? If it was near the street or sidewalk at the edge of the property line it is going to difficult to prove it was justified. If it is close to an entry of the home or building that is different. If close to the home that favors the owner, but if it is close to a storage shed where there is no threat to the owners the criminal would be likely viewed as a victim, especially if you did not post signs.

I am not going to shoot someone unless they are a danger to me or family. I don't want to give up my assets and cash I have accumulated for something like that and I am not sure how I would feel shooting someone who was not a danger to anyone. It isn't like somebody is going to break me if they steal something anyway. What would piss me off is if it had sentimental value. That stuff cannot be replaced.

My only point is in the situation where someone is asking for trouble and gets it as a society do we then make the person who gave the trouble punishment and make the criminal of victim? As far as where the line is drawn that has to be by a case by case basis.

if I shoot you in the face because I catch you stealing something in my car that's obviously a bit extreme on my end. If on the other hand you're going to steal something on my car like the catalytic converter and someone runs over and paralyzes your legs well maybe you shouldn't be stealing the catalytic converter and maybe they didn't stop in time because I didn't see you.

now where it gets interesting is cases where it's close. One guy in Florida kept having his shop broken into and he put up an electric fence that was obvious. A criminal broke in anyway and was electrocuted. This guy went to jail for that. The contraption was marked, one had to really go out of their way to try to go through it this is what I'm talking about. I don't think the guy should have gone to jail

[15round]

My only point is in the situation where someone is asking for trouble and gets it as a society do we then make the person who gave the trouble punishment and make the criminal of victim? As far as where the line is drawn that has to be by a case by case basis.

if I shoot you in the face because I catch you stealing something in my car that's obviously a bit extreme on my end. If on the other hand you're going to steal something on my car like the catalytic converter and someone runs over and paralyzes your legs well maybe you shouldn't be stealing the catalytic converter and maybe they didn't stop in time because I didn't see you.

now where it gets interesting is cases where it's close. One guy in Florida kept having his shop broken into and he put up an electric fence that was obvious. A criminal broke in anyway and was electrocuted. This guy went to jail for that. The contraption was marked, one had to really go out of their way to try to go through it this is what I'm talking about. I don't think the guy should have gone to jail

That guy probably didn't have signs posted which is why he went to jail.