Milk or no Milk (Dairy vs. no Dairy Diet?)

[BuakawBanchamek]

"Dietary Cholesterol and saturated fat raise your serum Cholesterol level. They are both risk factor for CVD as they raise your serum Cholesterol level.
The American Dietetic Association, the WHO, British Dietetic Association all recommend reducing your saturated fat intake.
In contrast, replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fat reduces your risk of CVD."

You left out any health benefits and portrayed them in sense that they have no positive effects.

At this point your posts are just flat out trolling. You clearly are ignorant to science and want to stay ignorant judging from your posts.

The body produces a certain amount of ATP. Athletes do work and use up the ATP. Taking external creatine allows them to do more work at a higher intensity.

1+1=2

1. Any health benefits.
The fact that youc an get protein and some vitamins does not change the fact that it contains large amounts of methionine, dietary cholesterol and saturated fat which are risk factors for cronic disease.

Again, there is no logic reasoning why you would want to increase your risk of cronic diseases to obtain protein and some vitamins that you can easily get through plants.


2. "The body produces a certain amount of ATP. Athletes do work and use up the ATP. Taking external creatine allows them to do more work at a higher intensity."

Again, show me a study that supports the idea that extra creatine increases performance.
And even if, there is not reason to eat meat and thus increase all cause mortality if you can simply get an supplement for creatine.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

1. Dietary Cholesterol refers to Cholesterol that is obtained through your diet. Pretty self explanatory.

2. "Its okay" - I'd argue that 2 steaks a weak is too much. But aside of that, are you eating MAX 2 steaks a week?
You never eat diary, eggs?
And for the sake of argument, 2 steaks are how much your body can compensate. How much dietary Cholesterol your body can compensate without developing heart disease. ( even tho there is evidence that shows that dietary cholesterol extremely increases your serum Cholesterol levels on persons with low serum cholesterol levels)
But that does not mean meat is healthy.

3. "That's not practical though. Eating that much vegetables is going to be too high in fiber. You'll be ****ting everywhere you go. "

Yeah, no I have not seen a study on how much vegans **** a day. And nor have I seen people complaining that they want to get unhealthy because they "**** too much".
This is a ridiculous argument lol.

4. " (e.g., >1 kg/d for several months) of raw Russian/Siberian kale of the species B. napus, some collards, and Brussels sprouts, "

Yeah good luck trying to eat that much raw kale or broccoli.

And again, this is another fallacy. Red Herring fallacy. This is completely irrelevant as you are distracting from the main topic that meat is unhealthy, regardless of portions.

1. You're ducking. HDL is good. Do you deny this, Yes or No?

2. Week* Dairy*

Whatever is healthy for you.

3. ****ting 3+ times per day is not healthy. Again, you don't understand basic science.

4. Idk what you are quoting but it isn't the study I showed.

Broccoli is goitrogenic. Idk what you don't get. Stay ignorant, idgaf. 1 kg of goitrogenic foods is actually pretty easy to eat in a day if you are a vegan. Especially if you are an athlete or bulking up in some way.

You actually proved one of my points. It is inconvenient to have to eat 3000 calories worth of vegan foods. I could eat meat and get a lot of those calories in less food. It's easier on the digestive system.

5. No, you're just an idiot. This is directly related. You are siting overconsumption of meat as evidence that meat is bad. I respond by saying incorrect portion control in relation to red meat is what is unhealthy.

You're a ****ing moron.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

1. Any health benefits.
The fact that youc an get protein and some vitamins does not change the fact that it contains large amounts of methionine, dietary cholesterol and saturated fat which are risk factors for cronic disease.

Again, there is no logic reasoning why you would want to increase your risk of cronic diseases to obtain protein and some vitamins that you can easily get through plants.


2. "The body produces a certain amount of ATP. Athletes do work and use up the ATP. Taking external creatine allows them to do more work at a higher intensity."

Again, show me a study that supports the idea that extra creatine increases performance.
And even if, there is not reason to eat meat and thus increase all cause mortality if you can simply get an supplement for creatine.

1. This argument is circling itself. I'm done. You clearly don't want to know the truth. So ****ing be it.

2. Then apparently you know more than hundreds of thousands if not millions of athletes.

Creatine does utilize ATP more efficiently allowing the athlete to do more work at a higher intensity. I don't have to prove it, millions of athletes have outright proven it through performance.

You know absolutely nothing and I hope nobody takes your advice on this forum. Don't bother responding to this post.

[BuakawBanchamek]

1. You're ducking. HDL is good. Do you deny this, Yes or No?

2. Week* Dairy*

Whatever is healthy for you.

3. ****ting 3+ times per day is not healthy. Again, you don't understand basic science.

4. Idk what you are quoting but it isn't the study I showed.

Broccoli is goitrogenic. Idk what you don't get. Stay ignorant, idgaf. 1 kg of goitrogenic foods is actually pretty easy to eat in a day if you are a vegan. Especially if you are an athlete or bulking up in some way.

You actually proved one of my points. It is inconvenient to have to eat 3000 calories worth of vegan foods. I could eat meat and get a lot of those calories in less food. It's easier on the digestive system.

5. No, you're just an idiot. This is directly related. You are siting overconsumption of meat as evidence that meat is bad. I respond by saying incorrect portion control in relation to red meat is what is unhealthy.

You're a ****ing moron.

1. HDL is "good" cholesterol.
However animal products contain LDL-Cholesterol which raises your serum Cholesterol levels.


3. Proof to me that vegans apparentely **** 3 time a day.
Proof to me that ****ting 3 times a day has significantly health issues.

4. So you did not even read your own study?
I quoted the Conclusion part.
Again, I quoted your own study.

"However, turnip tops, commercial broccoli, broccoli rabe, and kale belonging to Brassica oleracae contain less than 10 μmol of goitrin per 100-g serving and can be considered of minimal risk"
You would have to eat >1kg/d of "Siberian raw kale" to get health problems.
I have never seen someone eating siberian raw kale tho.
This argument is completely irrelevant.

"inconvience" - Considering that the majority of people are overweight and dealing with disease that obesity cause, this is not really "inconvienent". Then again, there are dozens of plant options that have high caloric density.
Nuts, avocados, rice, lentils.
A well planned- vegan diet does NOT consist of green veggies only.

5. I respond by saying incorrect portion control in relation to red meat is what is unhealthy.

You are just doing damage control. We have scientific evidence that small amounts of animal products significantly raise your blood cholesterol of healthy people. And as animal products do not have ANY nutrients that you can not obtain through a vegan diet, eating dietary Cholesterol, saturated fat and methionine in the amounts that are in animal products makes no sense.

And again, tell me what is exactly correct portion control. You seem to rely on that term heavily. Define it.

I will use this analogy over and over again. Cigarettes and refined sugar are unhealthy but eating or smoking very little of them won't kill you, yet I don't see ANY Doctor recommending them. Why are you recommending to eat meat? Why are you simply not stating that you have to cut down your animal product intake significantly to stay healthy?

Lastly as you began insulting, you are a moron who can not accept the fact that meat is unhealthy. You are a moron for being dishonest and only paying lip service. You say portion control all the time while not even defining it. You are an idiot who does not even practice what he is preaching.
I bet 100$ that you are not eating very very little amounts of animal products. I bet 100$ that your diet is based significantly on animal products.

[BuakawBanchamek]

1. This argument is circling itself. I'm done. You clearly don't want to know the truth. So ****ing be it.

2. Then apparently you know more than hundreds of thousands if not millions of athletes.

Creatine does utilize ATP more efficiently allowing the athlete to do more work at a higher intensity. I don't have to prove it, millions of athletes have outright proven it through performance.

You know absolutely nothing and I hope nobody takes your advice on this forum. Don't bother responding to this post.

1. Yeah I am also fed up with this circle ****.
Your position is that animal products are "okay" in portions
My position is that we have data that shows the effects of animal products in our diet and as the negative effects of them overshadow the benefits they are unhealthy. You would have to eat very little amounts of animal products to not get any negative effects.

2. Again, you are not backing up your claims. Which seems to be a common thing for you.

Back up the assertion that millions of atheletes take creatine supplements.
Back up your claim that extra creatine has a significant effect on athletic performance.

Lastly, you are completely ignoring my base argument.
WHY NOT TAKE A SIMPLE SUPPLEMENT FOR CREATINE INSTEAD OF EATING MEAT, without having to worry about heart disease, diabetes and cancer????!

If you want, I will gladly welcome it, lets call it a fcking day.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

2. Again, you are not backing up your claims. Which seems to be a common thing for you.

Back up the assertion that millions of atheletes take creatine supplements.
Back up your claim that extra creatine has a significant effect on athletic performance.

Lastly, you are completely ignoring my base argument.
WHY NOT TAKE A SIMPLE SUPPLEMENT FOR CREATINE INSTEAD OF EATING MEAT, without having to worry about heart disease, diabetes and cancer????!

If you want, I will gladly welcome it, lets call it a fcking day.

So you are completely against meat but you are enthusiastic about taking a man made??? Where do I begin:

• Weight gain due to extra water retention to the muscle
• Potential muscle cramps / strains / pulls
• Upset stomach
• Diarrhea
• Dizziness
• High blood pressure due to extra water consumption

Take your pick. You think in a creatine supplement that you are getting pure creatine? That **** is mixed with chemicals to change it to crystalized form. You lose strength gains and size when you come off of it.

Beef is at least natural.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

1. HDL is "good" cholesterol.
However animal products contain LDL-Cholesterol which raises your serum Cholesterol levels.


3. Proof to me that vegans apparentely **** 3 time a day.
Proof to me that ****ting 3 times a day has significantly health issues.

4. So you did not even read your own study?
I quoted the Conclusion part.
Again, I quoted your own study.

"However, turnip tops, commercial broccoli, broccoli rabe, and kale belonging to Brassica oleracae contain less than 10 μmol of goitrin per 100-g serving and can be considered of minimal risk"
You would have to eat >1kg/d of "Siberian raw kale" to get health problems.
I have never seen someone eating siberian raw kale tho.
This argument is completely irrelevant.

"inconvience" - Considering that the majority of people are overweight and dealing with disease that obesity cause, this is not really "inconvienent". Then again, there are dozens of plant options that have high caloric density.
Nuts, avocados, rice, lentils.
A well planned- vegan diet does NOT consist of green veggies only.

5. I respond by saying incorrect portion control in relation to red meat is what is unhealthy.

You are just doing damage control. We have scientific evidence that small amounts of animal products significantly raise your blood cholesterol of healthy people. And as animal products do not have ANY nutrients that you can not obtain through a vegan diet, eating dietary Cholesterol, saturated fat and methionine in the amounts that are in animal products makes no sense.

And again, tell me what is exactly correct portion control. You seem to rely on that term heavily. Define it.

I will use this analogy over and over again. Cigarettes and refined sugar are unhealthy but eating or smoking very little of them won't kill you, yet I don't see ANY Doctor recommending them. Why are you recommending to eat meat? Why are you simply not stating that you have to cut down your animal product intake significantly to stay healthy?

Lastly as you began insulting, you are a moron who can not accept the fact that meat is unhealthy. You are a moron for being dishonest and only paying lip service. You say portion control all the time while not even defining it. You are an idiot who does not even practice what he is preaching.
I bet 100$ that you are not eating very very little amounts of animal products. I bet 100$ that your diet is based significantly on animal products.

1. Fish is full of HDL.

3. Fiber makes you ****. Connect the ****ing dots. I don't have to explain obvious biology. The onus is on you to get educated enough to discuss these topics.

4. You have no idea what the study is even saying. If you eat overconsume goitrogenic foods then you run the risk of hypothyroidism. Those are just examples in the study. They obviously aren't going to put every single species of goitrogenic foods into one study. It's the substance that is the point. Get educated idiot.

5. Whatever dude you deny science.

What can I expect. You probably live in a ****ty 3rd world country in Asia where science class is on the floor of English class.

[Beercules]

Ive been watching this argument. Very entertaining


Since you guys know more than I do so I will just ask. Should a person take creatine every day or when?

[BuakawBanchamek]

So you are completely against meat but you are enthusiastic about taking a man made??? Where do I begin:

• Weight gain due to extra water retention to the muscle
• Potential muscle cramps / strains / pulls
• Upset stomach
• Diarrhea
• Dizziness
• High blood pressure due to extra water consumption

Take your pick. You think in a creatine supplement that you are getting pure creatine? That **** is mixed with chemicals to change it to crystalized form. You lose strength gains and size when you come off of it.

Beef is at least natural.

True. Creatine increases water retention which results in high blood pressure. Especially because some creatine supplements have high sodium content.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155510/
http://mineralmed.com.pt/documentos/...09d8a9c7f1.pdf

But then again, I was just going with the argument.
"Beef is at least natural" - yeah and causes heart disease diabetes and cancer.

You have yet to prove that Creatine has a SIGNIFICANT performance increase. And I have not seen any world class athelete claiming he won a competition because he took creatine from meat or as a supplement.


Again, this whole creatine argument is ****** because you make baseless assertions about the effects of creatine.
And one thing as well, you have NOT made a single recommendiation about how MUCH meat you need to eat in order to get a significant performance boost from the creatine.

[BuakawBanchamek]

Ive been watching this argument. Very entertaining


Since you guys know more than I do so I will just ask. Should a person take creatine every day or when?

Watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6ctIUoOEEQ

Pretty much sums it up about creatine using science to back up this video.