Did Liston take a dive against Ali?

[AJ53]

also im sure liston was actually cheered in this fight after ali's change to the nation of islam.
which would give him a little more encouragement to get up and fight.

[HipsterRan]

Yes Yes Yes !!!!!!

[dempseyfan]

Oh yeah, Liston could have won olympic gold with that dive job, just joking.

I had never paid that much attention to that shot before, but in the video by Asian it looks like Liston's head gets rocked pretty good, hard enough for a KO, I am not sure of that.

[AJ53]

i've just re watched it and the count does start when liston first touches down.
ali never does go to a neutral corner and it's the timekeeper who tells the referee he was down for 10 seconds.

so the questions are...
how can liston take a dive if their should'nt have even been a legal completed count?

was liston being smart knowing their wasn't a legal count because the ref even let the action continue?

and was the fix going on outside the ring rather than inside it?

either way it was a legitimate kd and a dodgy count so liston can hardly be accused of going into the tank unless...
1) walcott was in on it
2) the time keeper was in on it

in the post fight interveiw liston admitted he could have gotten up but how could he get up and defend himself with ali standing over him!!

also liston was cheered into the ring in maine that night and ali wasn't due to his allegience to the nation of islam.

[Mr. Ryan]

altough liston was a 'mob' fighter i still dunno if it was because of a betting scam that he stayed down.
as kfotball already said it was a definite legitimate knockdown altough it was a glancing punch.
but when liston is down ali is standing over him taunting him,
the rules state that no count should take place until ali is in a neutral corner.

when ali goes to a corner and liston gets up the fight continues.

but in this fight the referee jersey joe walcot could not control ali and could not remember the count.
it's only after the fights continues that the referee is instucted by an official that liston had been down for more than ten seconds.
so the question that should be asked is where did the officials count start!!

im sure that i remember that its when liston touches down( which im gonna re-check),
if ali wasn't in a neutral corner for the count it wasn't even a knockout.

fact is that ref should not have even been in the ring that night.

Jersey Joe Walcott botched it, he got lost in the confusion. In those days, they believed that a referee's only qualification should be that he can count to 10. Walcott was an underqualified celebrity official.

Nat Fleischer, who was the editor of Ring Magazine back in those days, shouted to Walcott that more than 10 seconds had elapsed and Walcott was looking for ANYBODY who could take hold of the situation so he called off the bout.

The rule is to start the count when the fighter breaks for the neutral corner, but in all of the confusion the officials botched the job.

[Mr. Ryan]

About the anchor punch that dropped Liston, Ali claims that a member of his entourage taught him the punch that he learned from Jack Johnson. Nat Fleischer reviewed the tape and concluded that Johnson never threw such a punch, but that Charley Burley, the early 1900s black middleweight, threw a similar punch.

[Mr. Ryan]

also im sure liston was actually cheered in this fight after ali's change to the nation of islam.
which would give him a little more encouragement to get up and fight.

Yep, the Liston-Ali fights were the first time in which there was a difference in culture between 2 black fighters. Ali was considered the "crazy negro", while Liston was considered the "bad negro". They also did the same with Patterson-Liston, where Patterson was considered the "good negro".

[butterfly1964]

About the anchor punch that dropped Liston, Ali claims that a member of his entourage taught him the punch that he learned from Jack Johnson. Nat Fleischer reviewed the tape and concluded that Johnson never threw such a punch, but that Charley Burley, the early 1900s black middleweight, threw a similar punch.

It was Stepin Fetchit.

[Mr. Ryan]

It was Stepin Fetchit.

Yeah, who later converted to the Nation of Islam. He was a singer who was generally considered an Uncle Tom. He once boasted that he had a house so big that it was a different time on the other side of it. He lost all of his earthly possesions on a horse bet.

[Liaison]

Liston may have been a great boxer, but he was certainly a terrible actor, man the way he goes down, laughable. He’d be a razzie award winner had that happened today.