Did Liston take a dive against Ali?

[Mr. Ryan]

I've thought about this for a hot minute, what are your thoughts? Liston at one point wanted to be a peoples champ, but soon found out that his past would never be overlooked by the public. He arrived home to Philly after winning the title to find that nobody was there to greet him, he was stunned. After that point, he didn't care what the fans thought, he became disdainful of the press and the fans who wouldn't give him a second chance in life. Going into the tank wouldn't be much of a concession for him.

Aside from that, he had to break up camp for the rematch because Ali suffered a hernia. At that age, which may have been his late 30s, it is hard to get back into shape for a second consecutive training camp, plus you only stay at your emotional peak for a short time before you get dull. It's like warming up for an hour, after a while you get tired mentally.

Liston also wouldn't address claims that the Nation of Islam had visited him to make assurances that Liston would try to do something competitive.

My thoughts are that Ali landed squarely and Liston went down, but he stayed down because he was crushed and discouraged by flashbacks of the first fight. He was humiliated and didn't want to get up and go through with the pain anymore. Liston wasn't out, he just didn't want to be embarrassed in a fight he didn't think he could win. It wasn't unlike when Tyson went down against Holyfield in their first fight, it was totally humiliating.

Judge for yourself...

[Dye]

i think he just realized once agian he couldnt win, even though i like liston more than Ali, so in a way yes i do think he took a dive

[ben41193]

Let me tell u somthing. LISTON GOT BEAT!!! end of story

[dempsey1919]

Yes it is right in front of your eyes the punch is clearly not hard enough to knock someone down let alone out and look when Walcott started to let them fight again how clear and awayer liston looks

[Mr. Ryan]

Yes it is right in front of your eyes the punch is clearly not hard enough to knock someone down let alone out and look when Walcott started to let them fight again how clear and awayer liston looks

Ali himself initially thought it was bull****, as you can see by him yelling at Liston to get up cuz it didn't look believable. He was about to say that he didn't think it was real to his brother, but his brother cut him off and said you landed clean and KO'ed him.

[Kball15]

there is VERY little doubt in my mind that Liston took the dive.

It was a very legitimate KD for sure. That was a quick, flush shot that liston never saw coming.

But you can literally see him second guessing himself in the ring. He goes to get up, and exagerates the fact that he cant do it.

But Liston did go to his grave claiming he was dazed and didnt take the dive

[dempsey1919]

Ali himself initially thought it was bull****, as you can see by him yelling at Liston to get up cuz it didn't look believable. He was about to say that he didn't think it was real to his brother, but his brother cut him off and said you landed clean and KO'ed him.

yeah and even in the ring he was hallering at liston to get up and fight him but I belive Liston was Scard that if he got up that the ******s would Kill him

[Mr. Ryan]

there is VERY little doubt in my mind that Liston took the dive.

It was a very legitimate KD for sure. That was a quick, flush shot that liston never saw coming.

But you can literally see him second guessing himself in the ring. He goes to get up, and exagerates the fact that he cant do it.

But Liston did go to his grave claiming he was dazed and didnt take the dive

I agree that there is no way he was out like he made believe he was, but I want to know why. What motivated him to do such.

[Mr. Ryan]

yeah and even in the ring he was hallering at liston to get up and fight him but I belive Liston was Scard that if he got up that the ******s would Kill him

The 1970 Documentarty AKA Cassius Clay suggests that Liston went into the tank and the mafia had made alot of money. There have been no gaudy bets uncovered to suggest the such.

[AJ53]

The 1970 Documentarty AKA Cassius Clay suggests that Liston went into the tank and the mafia had made alot of money. There have been no gaudy bets uncovered to suggest the such.

altough liston was a 'mob' fighter i still dunno if it was because of a betting scam that he stayed down.
as kfotball already said it was a definite legitimate knockdown altough it was a glancing punch.
but when liston is down ali is standing over him taunting him,
the rules state that no count should take place until ali is in a neutral corner.

when ali goes to a corner and liston gets up the fight continues.

but in this fight the referee jersey joe walcot could not control ali and could not remember the count.
it's only after the fights continues that the referee is instucted by an official that liston had been down for more than ten seconds.
so the question that should be asked is where did the officials count start!!

im sure that i remember that its when liston touches down( which im gonna re-check),
if ali wasn't in a neutral corner for the count it wasn't even a knockout.

fact is that ref should not have even been in the ring that night.