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DUDE I will not argue with most of your points.. BUT OTTKE?? come on! did you ever watch the OTTKE REID fight? that would have been enough to scare away anybody... When the ref Keeps warning you for landing legitamite punches YOU know SOMETHING is seriously wrong.. It was one of the most BLATANT displays of CORRUPTION I have ever witnessed.. OTTKE SHOULD be ashamed of himself..ALL HONEST Germans should ashamed of themsleves and Its amazing Reid didn't just walk out of the ring...
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I personally do not think that fight was the biggest robbery of all time as some make out yet I do feel that the ref was incompetent. Put an incompetent ref into the other fighters home city and when he makes mistakes under pressure he goes from incompetent to a cheat in some eyes.
You could say the ref helped out Ottke, just as you can say the judges rescued Sam Peter, Steele helped out Don King/JCC, the judges cheated Marvin Hagler etc.
Or you could say that a large number of boxing officials are incompetent and incapable of objectively doing their jobs.
Personally in a Ottke - Calzaghe fight at the time mooted I would have gone for Calzaghe, in Germany. Ottke was the Champion, Joe was a title-holder and a WBO one at that. Saying you are the best does not make you the best no matter how unpopular the real Champion is with the fans. Joe had an obligation to fight in Germany, he preferred not too and modern boxing is such that you can do this and call yourself a champion.
It is all meaningless debate now, that bird has flown. It will be a blemish on the careers of both men.Comment
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Calzaghe turned down a deal with Kessler? More like the other way around as has been reported - the only thing in dispute on that issue is the amount Warren offered.
As for the reasons why a Ottke-Calzaghe fight didn't come off, how on earth can you lay that one on JC when a) he was the one calling him out and b) Ottke turned down $1m for this fight? Google is very handy in these cases.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anyone that views Ottke as a credible champion - he received some horrible gift decisions during his title "reign".Comment
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LOL I basically summed that article up in about 2 sentences about 2 or 3 months ago
Joe is content with Lacy as a "big win" even though it is absolutely not a huge win. Kessler's win over Beyer is just as big because Beyer was a champ longer than Lacy AND Kessler KO'ed him quite easily. Kessler has already done about as much as Calzaghe in all honesty. It doesn't matter if you go undefeated for over a decade if your best opponents are a shot Chris Eubank, Charles Brewer, and Jeff Lacy.Comment
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You don't honestly expect that the british media has reported every time someone has approached Calzaghe with an offer do you?
Kessler has approached Calzaghe a number of times, even from back before he had the WBA-belt, but has been ignored or snubbed every time. (which is why i think the ball is now clearly in Calzaghe's court).
As for Ottke - while i agree about the gift decission - especially late in his career, I do still respect him.
Even if you remove the 4 or 5 most contested wins, his resume still holds up very well compared to Calzaghe's. Ottke has simply faced more top-level competition. Particularly he has fought more top-level competition IN THEIR PRIMES than Calzaghe has.
Prime Ottke vs. prime Calzaghe is to this day a very hard fight to pick. You might argue that Calzaghe has had the bigger potential, but Ottke has definitely proven more.Comment
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Calzaghe hasn´t done all he could to ever prove he is nr.1 i the world. Thats for sure.
Honestly, who cares about Ottke and his questionable wins, now that a heaven sent Kessler, regardet even better than Ottke comes along, who altso holds the last two tittles.
If we look at the money question, Kessler should accept a lover pay, since Calzaghe allready made himself famous in the lacy fight. Kessler then gets the shot at worldfame tv-deals if he wins. I can agree to that, i hope team palle can as well.
Frank Warren has started negotiation with team palle, and it now seems everybody gets to prove themself afterall.Comment
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Its a small world these days. News travels quite far. And the only news we have on any previous arrangements is that Kessler's team turned down the deal offered by Warren - regardless of what the amount was, that is an agreed fact, yes? Was Kessler dismissed as an option prior to winning the belts? Well, it wouldn't surprise me looking at his roll-call of previous opponents - seriously I hadn't heard of any of them.
Ottke more proven than Calzaghe? Ah **** it, I can't be bothered any more ... the lunatic danes are taking over the asylum. I'm starting to hope this fight happens so I can just point and laugh at the idiots.Comment
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Not agreed. Palle has been quoted several times in danish media and on the Team-Palle home-page that they've tried to approach Warren with the intention of setting up a Kessler-Calzaghe fight. But every time they've ben turned down. The fact that it only reaches UK newspapers if Warren chooses to tell them about it means feck all.
And as for the claim of Warren offering Kessler 1.5 mill£ I simply do not believe it for the following reasons.
1. Team-Palle comes out with rage, accusing Warren of downright lying, that they've NEVER recieved such an offer from Warren. Palle's accusation is still in puplic view on their web-site. If Warren insists he was telling the truth, and he has the least bit of evidence to suggest he's extended such an offer, he should damn well sue Palle for liabel.
2. Warren has provided no details such as time or place or other conditions of the offer. He just mentions that at some point he has extended such an offer.
3. An offer like that was simply too good for Kessler just to turn down. In previous fights he's made 10% of that at the most - so even if he expected to loose he should bloody well be smart enough to take it.
4. Such an offer is completely inconsistent with how Warren (from my perception) deals. I've heard that on a previous occation (summer/early fall 2005) he may have offered Kessler 50.000$. The same offer was supposedly extended to Mundine and Pemberton(though the australians claim Mundine was only offered 30.000$). They all turned it down, and Calzaghe ended up fighting Ashira. A 1.5 mill£ offer is so far out of line with anything i can imagine Warren would ever agree to. Let alone offer outright at the start of negotiations.
5. Warrens claim came conveniantly at a time where he was pressured into explaining why he'd failed to make better fights for Calzaghe. I do not think it's beyond him to lie.Comment
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If it was libellous, which it isn't as anyone who knows anything about the law would know, that works both ways - Palle should sue Warren!
Frank Warren is many things, but he isn't a complete idiot. He knows he'd be held up to public ridicule if he offered a belt holder $50,000. Which is why I am absolutely sure that's nonsense. Still, it's a nice little story.
Hold on - you just agreed with me, but not about the amount. Which is what I said. There's a shock.
Why don't they make a very public offer to Calzaghe/Warren? Put the ball in their court - force their hand or damn them to eternal damnation. Quit the "We'll fight in the UK with the right financial conditions" bull****. It's all very well saying that Warren isn't offering them anything .... why don't they try and make something happen? Joe's THE champion - challenge him!Last edited by SHB; 10-18-2006, 09:09 AM.Comment
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Before you leave the asylum you need to bear something in mind.
As much as google is a valuable resource for finding out about something nothing quite compensates for lived experience.
For example you say Frank Warren had a £1,000,000 offer turned-down? This is according to who, Frank Warren.
Now, is this the same Frank Warren who said over and over Ricky Hatton can sell out the MEN if he gets a big title fight (he could sell it with a WBU title even), arranged for Ricky to fight Harris for the WBA title, offered Harris X amount of money then cut his purse due to worries the promotion might not make a great deal of money? The same Warren who acted amateurishly in this situation and was reduced to calling Harris disgraceful names?
Is this the Warren who got Hatton into the #1 position for Tszyu's titles then announced the fight, twice, without actually getting Kostya's signature? The same Kostya whose team had to tell Warren to hold fire until they had actually signed the fight?
Is this the same Warren who, years ago, announced Audley Harrison-Matt Skelton as a PPV 'event' only for us to discover he had not signed, nor discussed terms, with Harrison?
Are we by chance talking about the same promoter who recently announced on his site that Andy Morris would be defending versus Stephen Foster last Saturday without actually signing Morris up for the fight?
Could it also be the guy who offered Hopkins, when he was red-hot, $3,000,000 to move up in weight, forget his MW title dream and come to England to fight Calzaghe? Why do you think Hopkins asked for $6,000,000? Work it out. Hopkins was well worth £3,000,000 not $$$. If we take $3,000,000 as £1.5,000,000 Warren thought P4P #1 Hopkins was only worth £500,000 than Ottke!
I think it may be the same guy.
Now, consider this. Team Calzaghe and Team Ottke sat down to discuss terms and negotiations fell apart, Team Ottke said that the demands on them (probably giving up home advantage despite being the Champion, coming to Wales, possibly facing an even purse split) were too great and withdrew. They then kept a dignified silence (unfortunately in boxing this is seen as weakness). Warren announced he had offered the £1,000,000 purse yet negotiations broke down, so how are we to know the overall purse was not to be split £1,000,000 Ottke and £1.5,000,000 Joe? Are we to assume Warren could not generate more money (£2,500,000) for a SM unification in Cardiff where it would sell massively, it would also be PPV (most likely) on Sky and would have German plus USA TV rights boosting the pot? Evidently he is not a premier promoter is he?
You do not make an offer then the other team says: "A million? Ok, we'll meet you at the end of the garden and don't forget your boxing gloves!"
No. Promotion is complex, one thing that does happen is that when negotiations break-down if one party comes out and says "we offered X" then people will jot it down and put it on the 'net. Then it will appear on google as only half the story, hence people get their "facts" wrong.
Close the door on the way out
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