Roy Jones's prime competition... exactly how good was it?

[Guest]

Let's get this **** over and done with once and for all.

What I've done below is list all Roy's prime opponents, from his winning the vacant IBF middleweight title against Hopkins all the way up to John Ruiz.

What I'm asking you to do is rate each opponent from A to D, like a school report. You can even add + or -, just to give yourself some leeway.

I don't wanna hear **** about "but Eubank never fought good competition" or any of that BS, I'm not ****ing mentioning Eubank, I don't give a ****. I'm talking about ROY JONES.

To make it even fairer, you might want to rate the opponents AS ROY FOUGHT THEM. For example, if you think that, say, Hopkins gets an "A" as a boxer, you might also think that he was greener when he fought Roy and only got "B-" or something. Conversely, while you might rate John Ruiz as a "C-" for a heavyweight, the fact that he IS a heavyweight might make him a "A" opponent in theory for a blown-up little guy like Roy.

Let's get it on!!!

Bernard Hopkins
Fermin Chirino
Danny Garcia
Thomas Tate
James Toney
Antoine Byrd
Vinny Pazienza
Tony Thornton
Merqui Sosa
Eric Lucas
Bryant Brannon
Mike McCallum
Montell Griffin
Virgil Hill
Lou Del Valle
Otis Grant
Richard Frazier
Reggie Johnson
David Telesco
Richard Hall
Eric Harding
Derrick Harmon
Julio Gonzalez
Glen Kelly
Clinton Woods
John Ruiz

[GEOFFHAYES]

Bernard Hopkins - A
Sugarboy Malinga - C
Fermin Chirino - D
Danny Garcia - Not seen him
Thomas Tate - C (but Jones already beat him in the amateurs)
James Toney - A (but he was weight-drained)
Antoine Byrd - C
Vinny Pazienza - B (but he was a blown-up lightweight)
Tony Thornton - B
Merqui Sosa - C
Eric Lucas - D
Bryant Brannon - D
Mike McCallum - A (but he was way past his best)
Montell Griffin - B
Virgil Hill - B
Lou Del Valle - D
Otis Grant - C (but he was blown-up)
Richard Frazier - E
Reggie Johnson - B (but he was way past his best)
David Telesco - D
Richard Hall - D
Eric Harding - B
Derrick Harmon - D
Julio Gonzalez - D
Glen Kelly - D
Clinton Woods - C
John Ruiz - C

[GEOFFHAYES]

That Frazier guy just looked pathetic, he had no offense at all and it didn't look like he could hurt a fly.

It was disgraceful.

[Guest]

Bernard Hopkins - A
Fermin Chirino - D
Danny Garcia - Not seen him
Thomas Tate - C (but Jones already beat him in the amateurs)
James Toney - A (but he was weight-drained)
Antoine Byrd - C
Vinny Pazienza - B (but he was a blown-up lightweight)
Tony Thornton - B
Merqui Sosa - C
Eric Lucas - D
Bryant Brannon - D
Mike McCallum - A (but he was way past his best)
Montell Griffin - B
Virgil Hill - B
Lou Del Valle - D
Otis Grant - C (but he was blown-up)
Richard Frazier - E
Reggie Johnson - B (but he was way past his best)
David Telesco - D
Richard Hall - D
Eric Harding - B
Derrick Harmon - D
Julio Gonzalez - D
Glen Kelly - D
Clinton Woods - C
John Ruiz - D

Interesting... so if you had to factor in your assessments, what would the marks be? (for example, would Johnson still get a B, given that you regard him as way past his best? And wouldn't you give Ruiz higher than a D in context?)

[Shanus]

Hopkins and Toney weren't A class fighters when they fought Roy, Geoff.

Ruiz was definately higher than D, and Julio Gonzalez wasn't D when he fought Roy either.

[GEOFFHAYES]

Interesting... so if you had to factor in your assessments, what would the marks be? (for example, would Johnson still get a B, given that you regard him as way past his best? And wouldn't you give Ruiz higher than a D in context?)

I've just given Ruiz a C, infact. I was being a little too harsh on him. And I threw in Sugarboy Malinga too


Anyway, factor:

Bernard Hopkins - B
Sugarboy Malinga - C
Fermin Chirino - D
Danny Garcia - Not seen him
Thomas Tate - C (but Jones already beat him in the amateurs)
James Toney - C
Antoine Byrd - C
Vinny Pazienza - D
Tony Thornton - C
Merqui Sosa - C
Eric Lucas - D
Bryant Brannon - D
Mike McCallum - B
Montell Griffin - B
Virgil Hill - B
Lou Del Valle - D
Otis Grant - D
Richard Frazier - E
Reggie Johnson - C
David Telesco - D
Richard Hall - D
Eric Harding - B
Derrick Harmon - D
Julio Gonzalez - D
Glen Kelly - D
Clinton Woods - C
John Ruiz - D (Jones was far too naturally fast for a heavy like him)

[Mr. Ryan]

After much debate, I'm going to have to say that his competition was good, but it could've better. True, maybe he wasn't able to get Nigel Benn or McLellan in the ring, but that's what it is. Look at it, he beat Bernard Hopkins and James Toney, and those are some serious names there. Virgil Hill was past his prime and Michaelczweski wasn't nothing special. Who did Michaelczewski ever beat?

Check it, he won an ABC belt from Ruiz and caught alot of flack becuz he had the audacity to say he was the heavyweight champion, which was an absolute joke. He knows he isn't Superman, we didn't find out until the following year that was the case. If he would've fought Lennox Lewis, he would've been killed. So it bothers me a little that he said he was champion, but thats the business there.

Jones lacked the kind of opponents that would've tested him because none of those guys were willing to cross the pond for a paycheck and a beating. I never liked Jones as a fighter, but I gotta give him his props.

[GEOFFHAYES]

Hopkins and Toney weren't A class fighters when they fought Roy, Geoff.

Ruiz was definately higher than D, and Julio Gonzalez wasn't D when he fought Roy either.

You think Gonzalez was an E? I admit, he was absolutely pathetic, and actually crying after the fight! But he still wasn't as pathetic as Frazier, who I also gave an E.

[Mr. Ryan]

Bernard Hopkins: A
Fermin Chirino: D
Danny Garcia: Never seen him
Thomas Tate: B
James Toney: A
Antoine Byrd: B
Vinny Pazienza: B
Tony Thornton: C
Merqui Sosa: B
Eric Lucas: C
Bryant Brannon: C
Mike McCallum: C (McCallum was real old)
Montell Griffin: B
Virgil Hill: C (Hill was never a world beater)
Lou Del Valle: C
Otis Grant: C
Richard Frazier: D
Reggie Johnson: B
David Telesco: D
Richard Hall D
Eric Harding: B
Derrick Harmon: D
Julio Gonzalez: C
Glen Kelly: F
Clinton Woods: B
John Ruiz: C[/QUOTE]

[Guest]

Hopkins and Toney weren't A class fighters when they fought Roy, Geoff.

Ruiz was definately higher than D, and Julio Gonzalez wasn't D when he fought Roy either.

I would agree on Hopkins, but not Toney. When he fought Roy, Toney was considered top 2 P4P...