Final Poll - Abraham vs Miranda - Who Won?

[restless_438]

The fight itself was close, some rounds must have been hard to score on the night with the long stoppages. Factor in all the points deductions and I think Abraham deserved to keep the title. A rematch is in order when Abraham is ready.

well put..

[antihero]

well put..

I don't think Miranda really did enough to take it when you add in all the fouls. I have no axe to grind either way, just a casual observer.

[Pantera2000]

But to be fair you need to decide if all these fouls deserved point deductions, and if Abraham should have had some also.

With the point deductions, being in Germany I knew there was no way for Miranda to win. But put the same fight in Las Vegas with different refs and judges and no question in my mind Miranda takes home the belt (either by TKO or on points)

[restless_438]

But to be fair you need to decide if all these fouls deserved point deductions, and if Abraham should have had some also.

With the point deductions, being in Germany I knew there was no way for Miranda to win. But put the same fight in Las Vegas with different refs and judges and no question in my mind Miranda takes home the belt (either by TKO or on points)

to his credit, i thought the point taken off in the 11th was pretty pointless..

[antihero]

Pantera, I think the last point deduction from Miranda was harsh, it was on the belt-line, borderline low but not that low. Then again though, if he hits below the belt, the referee can call it. I just think Miranda should have been more careful with his punches. An away fighter in Germany must be extra careful in those circumstances and I think it was a close fight.

[PRboxingfan]

Okay, maybe you only saw the last 3 rounds of the fight or something, but if you watched the full 12, it's hardly the case of Abraham "running".. how can a guy that had Miranda hurt a few times in the fight be running for 2 minutes and holding for another? Sounds biased to me.... i give Miranda credit inthat i was impressed with his inside-fighting and his agressive style being able to go the full 12, but he threw too wide much of the fight, while Abraham was mythodical and accurate.. seriously PR, can't help but wonder if you saw the fight.. the ref did his job, Miranda's dirty..

Yes, I did watch the fight. Abraham came out like a freight train in the first round but Miranda put a stop to that in the second. Miranda kept hurting Abraham whose only recourse was to run backwards or to hold on. Was every round like this? No, I was exagerating, of course, but he did do it often enough (4-5 rounds) to where it seemed like his normal pattern.

I have no argument to the headbutt. It was intentional and deserved the two-point deduction. The low blows, however, were really good body shots that hurt Abraham and he faked the ref into thinking they were low. I can't see any of the low blow point deductions as being legit.

As for Abraham, he must've taken lessons from B-Hop and John Ruiz on holding. This guy must've really had love for Miranda because he kept hugging him like he was his wife or kid. I mean, it seemed in the second and third rounds that he ran out of gas in the first with his high punch output. The second and third rounds were Abraham retreating backwards and throwing combos at the end of the rounds to try and steal them. He spent too much time on the ropes, too. And, except for a right hand and a left hook in the fourth, Abraham did close to nothing. Yes, he buckled Miranda with the left, but two punches don't win a round. Look at rounds 5-7 and you will see an Abraham that almost seems like he's given up. He does just enough to try and keep Miranda off him but not enough to win a round.

The two point deductions in the 7th, tho, were pure crap. Every one of those shots was on the belt line. Every round after the 8th was won by Miranda in clear fashion. The point deduction in the 11th, again, product of an old, senile ref who doesn't know that the belt line is legal.

Seriously, I mean, a ref who doesn't know that if you stop a fight due to a cut caused by a punch leads to a TKO victory and not the scorecards does not deserve to be reffing a title fight. He needed about 5 minutes of help to determine that and even called the two-point deduction on Miranda AFTER the doc told him to stop the fight thinking that the fight would go to the scorecards and give Abraham the victory. I wonder how much he was paid to ensure Miranda lost.

[Xcel]

The Ref won.

[Xcel]

Can I see the scorecards of the judges?

[restless_438]

Miranda never had Abraham hurt through the entire 12 round fight.. can't really say the same about Miranda, although it seemed both men have solid-chins (at least in this fight)

[Pantera2000]

Yes, I did watch the fight. Abraham came out like a freight train in the first round but Miranda put a stop to that in the second. Miranda kept hurting Abraham whose only recourse was to run backwards or to hold on. Was every round like this? No, I was exagerating, of course, but he did do it often enough (4-5 rounds) to where it seemed like his normal pattern.

I have no argument to the headbutt. It was intentional and deserved the two-point deduction. The low blows, however, were really good body shots that hurt Abraham and he faked the ref into thinking they were low. I can't see any of the low blow point deductions as being legit.

As for Abraham, he must've taken lessons from B-Hop and John Ruiz on holding. This guy must've really had love for Miranda because he kept hugging him like he was his wife or kid. I mean, it seemed in the second and third rounds that he ran out of gas in the first with his high punch output. The second and third rounds were Abraham retreating backwards and throwing combos at the end of the rounds to try and steal them. He spent too much time on the ropes, too. And, except for a right hand and a left hook in the fourth, Abraham did close to nothing. Yes, he buckled Miranda with the left, but two punches don't win a round. Look at rounds 5-7 and you will see an Abraham that almost seems like he's given up. He does just enough to try and keep Miranda off him but not enough to win a round.

The two point deductions in the 7th, tho, were pure crap. Every one of those shots was on the belt line. Every round after the 8th was won by Miranda in clear fashion. The point deduction in the 11th, again, product of an old, senile ref who doesn't know that the belt line is legal.

Seriously, I mean, a ref who doesn't know that if you stop a fight due to a cut caused by a punch leads to a TKO victory and not the scorecards does not deserve to be reffing a title fight. He needed about 5 minutes of help to determine that and even called the two-point deduction on Miranda AFTER the doc told him to stop the fight thinking that the fight would go to the scorecards and give Abraham the victory. I wonder how much he was paid to ensure Miranda lost.

I think one of the low blows in the 7th was low, but sufice for a warning not a point deduction. None of the so called low blows were close to the groin where a ref should consider points loss.
Even the headbutt which looks in slow motion to be intentional was not going to be called that way by the ref until again Abraham sold the call and walked to his corner without permission from the ref.

A lot of shady things happened that night and I would like to believe that Randy Neumann just had a bad night, but it's hard not to think there was more behind it.