Only in Germany..........!!

[moochi]

Watched the Abraham - Miranda fight..............what a joke!

The referee was a joke too.............yes he is a yank, but he had no idea what was going on and he took the easy way in favouring the local!!

That "headbutt" perhaps was intentional, but it would have to be a very light intentional...............the ref, ah ah....doesn't know what to do so he speaks to supervisor and they work out what to do!!...what a joke!...in the meantime, he gives Abraham 5 or 10 minutes to be stay with the doctor and work on injuries he received from the fight which had nothing to do with the headbutt!!!!...that is illegal.......2....the ref then decides to take 2 points from Miranda!!...that is a joke, at worst 1 point...

rest of the fight, any punch to the body was deemed a low blow, and penalties were given at will..........most of the time it was abraham going back and punches hitting his forearms and sliding low to his belt line!!..................once again, a crap referee looks to the easy way, and 1. gives abraham more time to recuperate and 2. takes more points off miranda!!...

at the end, I can't really see what Abraham did to win that fight!!....ran all night, tried to win the fight in 20 secs or so per round, which doesn't usually fool the judges in the U.S...and he wins............

if we ignore Mirana losing the 5 points, Miranda still would have lost...........what a joke!...

Most people seem to ignore this and say that Abraham is a warrior, and I say, yes he is...but this is not about him, but about the fight and the decision............I don't believe the referee and supervisor, judges, etc are paid out by the promoters, i just believe they are overawed by the situation!!

I don't think I've ever seen a referee so uncertain as to what to do ....soft headbutt to side of head, so he gives the fighter many minutes to look at another injury and recuperate etc.......................


last but not least, never ever have I seen in the states, this, the doctor cheering on a fighter!!!....so much for being a doctor and or being impartial!!...

as i said, only in germany!

[Novirasputin]

1. In each picture the black part of the glove is CLEARLY touching the blue part of the trunks. Most of these were the LB's that DID not cost Miranda points.

2. If Miranda felt like he was getting screwed, then he shouldn't have been ****** enough to aim for the body period. Unfair? maybe but these pics show he made the msitakes and hit the blue of the trunks.


3. IBF rules mandate a 2 point deduction or a DQ for ANY INTENTIONAL FOUL. The blow while not strong was INTENTIONAL and hence warranted a 2 point deduction BECAUSE AA was able to continue (were he unable to continue due to the headbutt then it would be a DQ but he could obviously though not as effectively).

4. Abraham had Miranda hurt in rounds 4,8,9 and also arguably won 5 besides the point deductions because after the HB he came out winging and scored well again hurting Miranda. I thought he clearly won 1 and 3. In my opinion Miranda while very aggressive was not very effective and so the judges awarded points to AA for clean punching.
A draw without point deductions would have been my score, but as i said Miranda earned each of the deductions
114-109 is what i had it. 115 is feasible IF you make the 2nd even, although i gave it to Miranda but could see it even. 116 seemed out of the question to me.

That is how i had it.

[Novirasputin]

btw,
some more blows

[VanesBoxing]

Only in Germany...

will people push a Champion to his last breath and let a WAR go on so that a historic GREAT FIGHT can be made. ( I guess it was alot more emotional for me given an Armenian has never been in such a high caliber, world stage fight)

He is KING ARTHUR and he will recover. The fight could have/should have been stopped, BUT IT WASNT, and ABRAHAM was man enough to show the Heart of a Lion and beat a tough undefeated opponent with a broken jaw.

Stop all the hating and bull**** about Only in Germany. They take some risks there that we wouldnt take here in the US, and the risk made for an incredible heroic fight that otherwise would have been an early unwarranted premature TKO.

I understand it came at the expense of Arthur's health, but he is a Warrior, and he decided to fight, cant take nothin away from him for doin so.

[Bozo_no no]

1. In each picture the black part of the glove is CLEARLY touching the blue part of the trunks. Most of these were the LB's that DID not cost Miranda points.

2. If Miranda felt like he was getting screwed, then he shouldn't have been ****** enough to aim for the body period. Unfair? maybe but these pics show he made the msitakes and hit the blue of the trunks.


3. IBF rules mandate a 2 point deduction or a DQ for ANY INTENTIONAL FOUL. The blow while not strong was INTENTIONAL and hence warranted a 2 point deduction BECAUSE AA was able to continue (were he unable to continue due to the headbutt then it would be a DQ but he could obviously though not as effectively).

4. Abraham had Miranda hurt in rounds 4,8,9 and also arguably won 5 besides the point deductions because after the HB he came out winging and scored well again hurting Miranda. I thought he clearly won 1 and 3. In my opinion Miranda while very aggressive was not very effective and so the judges awarded points to AA for clean punching.
A draw without point deductions would have been my score, but as i said Miranda earned each of the deductions
114-109 is what i had it. 115 is feasible IF you make the 2nd even, although i gave it to Miranda but could see it even. 116 seemed out of the question to me.

That is how i had it.

There is so much of this post that is just wrong.

Starting with the photos. Those are all still captures, and that could be done with any fighter in any fight. Abraham's trunks are covering his navel, and you almost always see a referee motion where on the trunks a puch will be legal. This is not apparent in the pre fight instructions, thus it's not clear.

Second, you seem to be implying that Miranda landing borderline low should have lead to more warning and or deductions.

Abraham excessively held over the 2nd part of the fight, and received no warning. This was just as bad if not worse in terms of fouling than what you posted in those photos.

3rd, the IBF rules state that an intentional foul that causes injury warrents an automatic 2 point deduction. For an intention foul that doesn't cause injury, the wording is left open to the referee's discretion. The headbutt did not cause that injury and the reff stated that in the time out after the butt.

4th, you say Abraham "hurt" Miranda in rounds 4,8,9.

That's VERY subjective. He had him reeling in the 4th, until Miranda broke his jaw. In the 8th and 9th, Abraham's flurring was very short lived and brief. Suggesting he should have automaticly been given those rounds is a big stretch.

I can accept someone scoring the fight for Abraham with all those deductions, but your opinion is very pointed and couldn't lean anymore to Abraham's side.

Living with the reff's decision, Abraham retained his title. But there is a lot of room for debate here because a lot about the fight was contraversial.

[Bozo_no no]

For the record I don't think this had anything to do with Germany as the thread title suggests.

I would have had Miranda winning if not for all the points he lost, but if the reff makes that call you have to score it as such.

I just think he made some iffy calls with those point deductions, and was unfair in allowing all of that holding by Abraham in the 2nd half of the fight. If you're going to be hyper sensative about fouls, at least hold both guys up to that standard.

[adamk1304]

Watched the Abraham - Miranda fight..............what a joke!

The referee was a joke too.............yes he is a yank, but he had no idea what was going on and he took the easy way in favouring the local!!

That "headbutt" perhaps was intentional, but it would have to be a very light intentional...............the ref, ah ah....doesn't know what to do so he speaks to supervisor and they work out what to do!!...what a joke!...in the meantime, he gives Abraham 5 or 10 minutes to be stay with the doctor and work on injuries he received from the fight which had nothing to do with the headbutt!!!!...that is illegal.......2....the ref then decides to take 2 points from Miranda!!...that is a joke, at worst 1 point...

rest of the fight, any punch to the body was deemed a low blow, and penalties were given at will..........most of the time it was abraham going back and punches hitting his forearms and sliding low to his belt line!!..................once again, a crap referee looks to the easy way, and 1. gives abraham more time to recuperate and 2. takes more points off miranda!!...

at the end, I can't really see what Abraham did to win that fight!!....ran all night, tried to win the fight in 20 secs or so per round, which doesn't usually fool the judges in the U.S...and he wins............

if we ignore Mirana losing the 5 points, Miranda still would have lost...........what a joke!...

Most people seem to ignore this and say that Abraham is a warrior, and I say, yes he is...but this is not about him, but about the fight and the decision............I don't believe the referee and supervisor, judges, etc are paid out by the promoters, i just believe they are overawed by the situation!!

I don't think I've ever seen a referee so uncertain as to what to do ....soft headbutt to side of head, so he gives the fighter many minutes to look at another injury and recuperate etc.......................


last but not least, never ever have I seen in the states, this, the doctor cheering on a fighter!!!....so much for being a doctor and or being impartial!!...

as i said, only in germany!

yes i agree, slightly intentional

[moochi]

btw,
some more blows

u guys make me laugh...........all of those punches were aimed at body and with abraham covering up all night they slip off the forearms downwards!!..

god dam nuthuggers amuze me!


u didn't comment on the "IBF RULES" allowing a fighter to receive treatment for other injuries!!..........

that headbutt didn't need any treatment, but if so, why on another injury !


u didn't comment on the doctor cheering for abraham!!

say what you want guys, i've been wathcing german shows for many many years, and it is always a laugh to watch them!!.....

remember the danny green - markus beyer fight!...they promoters went crazy and made the ref change his decision...and do what they wanted!

[adamk1304]

u guys make me laugh...........all of those punches were aimed at body and with abraham covering up all night they slip off the forearms downwards!!..

god dam nuthuggers amuze me!

Are u just gonna ignore the video of the headbutt i posted?? Those punches were all low regardless of whether abraham was covering up. I take it you'd be all guns blazing in there if you had a broken jaw, right?

[moochi]

Are u just gonna ignore the video of the headbutt i posted?? Those punches were all low regardless of whether abraham was covering up. I take it you'd be all guns blazing in there if you had a broken jaw, right?

don't need to see your video of the headbutt as i have the fight and you don't have to be einstein to realise that it is intentional, although not all that bad, but definitely nothing to do with the "5 minute break to recuperate and receive treatment for the other injury he received from good punches"

please address that point!!.....when is a fighter given time to treat legimate injuries??....


also, stop reverting to what abraham did...that is not the topic!!

as Bozo_no_no mentioned, the ref was hypersensitive about punces to the body and in the process giving abraham "time to recuperate"

watching that fight made me sick!....that was nothing short of shocking officiating.............and as i said, its a case of the officials being overawed and reverting to the easy way!!..