Only in Germany..........!!

[adamk1304]

don't need to see your video of the headbutt as i have the fight and you don't have to be einstein to realise that it is intentional, although not all that bad, but definitely nothing to do with the "5 minute break to recuperate and receive treatment for the other injury he received from good punches"

please address that point!!.....when is a fighter given time to treat legimate injuries??....


also, stop reverting to what abraham did...that is not the topic!!

as Bozo_no_no mentioned, the ref was hypersensitive about punces to the body and in the process giving abraham "time to recuperate"

watching that fight made me sick!....that was nothing short of shocking officiating.............and as i said, its a case of the officials being overawed and reverting to the easy way!!..

Abraham was given time to recover because the headbutt worsened the injury, i agree that it wasn't that hard but the slightest touch can amplify the damage to an already broken bone.

[DiegoFuego]

Miranda is the only joke. The fact that he had a guy with a broken jaw in front of him and STILL couldn't stop fouling him intentionally is embarrassing. I wonder why Ken Norton didn't lose 5 points when he had an Ali with a broken jaw in front of him. Oh wait, Ken Norton isn't a total dumbass and overhyped fighter.

[GunStar]

Watched the Abraham - Miranda fight..............what a joke!

The referee was a joke too.............yes he is a yank, but he had no idea what was going on and he took the easy way in favouring the local!!

That "headbutt" perhaps was intentional, but it would have to be a very light intentional...............the ref, ah ah....doesn't know what to do so he speaks to supervisor and they work out what to do!!...what a joke!...in the meantime, he gives Abraham 5 or 10 minutes to be stay with the doctor and work on injuries he received from the fight which had nothing to do with the headbutt!!!!...that is illegal.......2....the ref then decides to take 2 points from Miranda!!...that is a joke, at worst 1 point...

rest of the fight, any punch to the body was deemed a low blow, and penalties were given at will..........most of the time it was abraham going back and punches hitting his forearms and sliding low to his belt line!!..................once again, a crap referee looks to the easy way, and 1. gives abraham more time to recuperate and 2. takes more points off miranda!!...

at the end, I can't really see what Abraham did to win that fight!!....ran all night, tried to win the fight in 20 secs or so per round, which doesn't usually fool the judges in the U.S...and he wins............

if we ignore Mirana losing the 5 points, Miranda still would have lost...........what a joke!...

Most people seem to ignore this and say that Abraham is a warrior, and I say, yes he is...but this is not about him, but about the fight and the decision............I don't believe the referee and supervisor, judges, etc are paid out by the promoters, i just believe they are overawed by the situation!!

I don't think I've ever seen a referee so uncertain as to what to do ....soft headbutt to side of head, so he gives the fighter many minutes to look at another injury and recuperate etc.......................


last but not least, never ever have I seen in the states, this, the doctor cheering on a fighter!!!....so much for being a doctor and or being impartial!!...

as i said, only in germany!

I 100% agree with you!

[Pantera2000]

This was ALL about Germany. Any other country and Miranda wins easy. Low blows were a joke. Any fight you can freeze a shots and find portions of the glove is below the beltline. A low blow that is dirty is in the nuts man! Miranda was working the body and doing a damn good job of it until the ref announced he will DQ Miranda for anymore. What a joke!

Miranda is the champion, and will make it offical soon enough. Abraham will be sucking juice thourgh a straw for many months and may never see the inside of a ring again. Hope your proud Mr Sauerland for ruining a young great fighter's career.

[moochi]

Miranda is the only joke. The fact that he had a guy with a broken jaw in front of him and STILL couldn't stop fouling him intentionally is embarrassing. I wonder why Ken Norton didn't lose 5 points when he had an Ali with a broken jaw in front of him. Oh wait, Ken Norton isn't a total dumbass and overhyped fighter.

the point of this topic is the officiating in germany.........

[DiegoFuego]

the point of this topic is the officiating in germany.........

yeah, I was surprised they actually did a good job for once

[PATO 1]

This was ALL about Germany. Any other country and Miranda wins easy. Low blows were a joke. Any fight you can freeze a shots and find portions of the glove is below the beltline. A low blow that is dirty is in the nuts man! Miranda was working the body and doing a damn good job of it until the ref announced he will DQ Miranda for anymore. What a joke!

Miranda is the champion, and will make it offical soon enough. Abraham will be sucking juice thourgh a straw for many months and may never see the inside of a ring again. Hope your proud Mr Sauerland for ruining a young great fighter's career.

abraham fairly won the decision, quite easily actually,miranda is a ****in disgrace and should have been dq'd Miranda aint no champ he doesnt have the heart of a champ, tell that ****er to go back to were he belongs the streets

****in ****** bastard, im glad abraham fairly beat him

[Novirasputin]

There is so much of this post that is just wrong.

Starting with the photos. Those are all still captures, and that could be done with any fighter in any fight. Abraham's trunks are covering his navel, and you almost always see a referee motion where on the trunks a puch will be legal. This is not apparent in the pre fight instructions, thus it's not clear.

Second, you seem to be implying that Miranda landing borderline low should have lead to more warning and or deductions.

Abraham excessively held over the 2nd part of the fight, and received no warning. This was just as bad if not worse in terms of fouling than what you posted in those photos.

3rd, the IBF rules state that an intentional foul that causes injury warrents an automatic 2 point deduction. For an intention foul that doesn't cause injury, the wording is left open to the referee's discretion. The headbutt did not cause that injury and the reff stated that in the time out after the butt.

4th, you say Abraham "hurt" Miranda in rounds 4,8,9.

That's VERY subjective. He had him reeling in the 4th, until Miranda broke his jaw. In the 8th and 9th, Abraham's flurring was very short lived and brief. Suggesting he should have automaticly been given those rounds is a big stretch.

I can accept someone scoring the fight for Abraham with all those deductions, but your opinion is very pointed and couldn't lean anymore to Abraham's side.

Living with the reff's decision, Abraham retained his title. But there is a lot of room for debate here because a lot about the fight was contraversial.

1. Any shot below the navel is low. UNLESS you believe the ref is corrupt if he RULES the shot low, then it coincides with his pre fight instructions. If its a mistake but he keeps making it over and over Miranda is at a disadvantage but should not continue throwing if he is unsure of where it will land. the realy controversy is why was he not DQed. The ref did not do any favors for AA by letting the fight go on.

2. I am implying that there WERE warnings and the deductions didn't come out of thin air.

3. I agree here and have said that. However the real problem is if you see Ruiz Golota you will know Neumann is the kind of ref who won't penalize or warn for holding. THAT is a mistake of the Miranda team. It doesn't excuse Neumann of course but hey what are you going to do?
Miranda held on in each of the rounds was hurt in (i am not talking about brief flurries i am talking about EM grabbing onto AA after he got run into the corner and hit in the face) Were he the one doing the grabbing the ref would not bother him and did not bother him throughout the fight.

4.Read: http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...ut%20Rules.pdf

"Any contestant who deliberately fouls his opponent during a contest will be penalized
with loss of points or disqualification, depending upon the severity of the foul and the
effect upon the opponent."

"If there is an intentional foul and the contest can continue, a two point deduction
for intentional fouls is mandatory."

There is nothing about warning, there is no first time free pass. Intentional foul - 2 points. IBF rules.

5. but that is why i gave the rounds for him. I am not the only one and you can call somebody bias or leaning to AA's side but the point is from the scores i saw Abraham got rounds for clean effective punching.

i had it 114-109 but i could see 115-109 if you give the 2nd as a draw and not to Miranda (although i gave it to Miranda).

6. Hence we are debating the fight and all its fine points.

[Bozo_no no]

1. Any shot below the navel is low. UNLESS you believe the ref is corrupt if he RULES the shot low, then it coincides with his pre fight instructions. If its a mistake but he keeps making it over and over Miranda is at a disadvantage but should not continue throwing if he is unsure of where it will land. the realy controversy is why was he not DQed. The ref did not do any favors for AA by letting the fight go on.

2. I am implying that there WERE warnings and the deductions didn't come out of thin air.

There is nothing you can say that is going to make those shots you posted in still caps low. The line of where a shot is acceptable is determined by the referee in the pre fight instructions, and was not included in the video. According to almost every instance, a shot right on the belt line (where you have all of those punches landing) IS legal.

Regardless, there was no verbal warnings for low blows.

3. I agree here and have said that. However the real problem is if you see Ruiz Golota you will know Neumann is the kind of ref who won't penalize or warn for holding. THAT is a mistake of the Miranda team. It doesn't excuse Neumann of course but hey what are you going to do?

Point out that he's a poor official, as has been mentioned by several people in the days following this fight. A foul is a foul, and claiming it's worse in one instance than in another doesn't cut it.

Bottom line is that what Abraham did was deserving of him losing several points for repeated holding. It was beyond excessive in the last half of the fight because it's just about all he did.

4.Read: http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...ut%20Rules.pdf

"Any contestant who deliberately fouls his opponent during a contest will be penalized
with loss of points or disqualification, depending upon the severity of the foul and the
effect upon the opponent."

"If there is an intentional foul and the contest can continue, a two point deduction
for intentional fouls is mandatory."

There is nothing about warning, there is no first time free pass. Intentional foul - 2 points. IBF rules.

I've read it. You need to take another look.

The part you're quoting is section 2.b of the heading "Injuries (cuts)".

The injury in question was not the result of a headbutt. Thus, you're reading the wrong section. Because the was no injury that resulted from the butt, it was up to Neuman to determine the savarity of the foul. Watch that butt again and tell me it deserves 2 points taken away. It does not.

5. but that is why i gave the rounds for him. I am not the only one and you can call somebody bias or leaning to AA's side but the point is from the scores i saw Abraham got rounds for clean effective punching.

Giving him rounds for 15 seconds worth of clean punching outside of 2 mins 45 seconds of running, covering up and holding is a stretch.

[bigtime9]

abraham fairly won the decision, quite easily actually,miranda is a ****in disgrace and should have been dq'd Miranda aint no champ he doesnt have the heart of a champ, tell that ****er to go back to were he belongs the streets

****in ****** bastard, im glad abraham fairly beat him

only a nuthugger could come to that conclusion..You didn't even watch the fight so comment on what you know