Bert Sugar's Top 100 Fighters Of All Time...

[lidsy]

Sandy Saddler should be higher. He won 145 fights with 103 ko's and beat Willie Pep 3 out of 4 times, and Pep is quite rightly rated at number 3.

[Exige Jr]

No MAB or Morales?

I didnt see their names on the list, but I only scanned...

[GunStar]

No MAB or Morales?

I didnt see their names on the list, but I only scanned...

Their not retired yet and I highly doubt they will make Bert's list.

I also don't see PBF, because he's an active fighter.

Anyway if anyone that don't put Leonard in top 10, then I can take him seriously anymore.

[Exige Jr]

Their not retired yet and I highly doubt they will make Bert's list.

I also don't see PBF, because he's an active fighter.

Anyway if anyone that don't put Leonard in top 10, then I can take him seriously anymore.

Well they are not retired... but surely they have not much left. Everything they have achieved up until this point is not gonna be overturned by any other victories in the future... they have done everything, right?

I think one of them should be on there at least.

[El Jesus]

Because his career is not based on a draw with Whitiker, that took place when Chavez was 31 and Whitiker was 29 or less.

If you've havn't seen the fight then say so in first sentence. And the fight is all over the internet, just download the fight. Whitiker fouled a lot to slow down Chavez. It was no embarresment.

You know...not only do you exaggerate the "fouling" were talking about Cesar Chavez here, CESAR CHAVEZ, a man who would constantly lead with his head, headbutt you, lowblow you or whatever else was nessecary if he felt it needed to be done. Please.

The fact that Chavez is ranked higher than guys who are clearly better in the skill department is what people are raving about. Whitaker SHOULD NOT be below Chavez, ever. I dont think its chavez' ranking as much as people who are clearly better than him skillwise are above him. Which is rediculous.

[bsrizpac]

You know...not only do you exaggerate the "fouling" were talking about Cesar Chavez here, CESAR CHAVEZ, a man who would constantly lead with his head, headbutt you, lowblow you or whatever else was nessecary if he felt it needed to be done. Please.

The fact that Chavez is ranked higher than guys who are clearly better in the skill department is what people are raving about. Whitaker SHOULD NOT be below Chavez, ever. I dont think its chavez' ranking as much as people who are clearly better than him skillwise are above him. Which is rediculous.

LMAO@Ferocity. Your Mexican Nuthugging knows no bounds or reality. Frankly I'm still amazed at the heights of lunacy you'll reach to attempt to prove a point.

Chavez IS an all time great. Amazing fighter.

Whitaker embarrassed him. For you to justify it shows what a brainwashed fan you really are.

[wmute]

good list content-wise.

but the order is biased from demographics, oldtimers and fighters form the past 15 years are biased against. Bert Sugar knows his **** but like most ppl, he overrates fighters that fought during a certain time of his life.

Jake La Motta WAAAAAAY too high
Joe Gans too low
Roy Jones Jr. too low

also non american fighters too low (except for Duran, or amybe even for duran):
monzon
jofre

[Guest]

Interesting list... I was looking mainly at his heavyweights. He's got the likes of Ezzard Charles and JJ Walcott in there, but no Big Len?

[realheavyhands]

if he wasnt a fighter his list means nothing

[K-DOGG]

I'm only going to make notations next to the ones I have strong feelings on. I may disagree slightly with a few; but he's Bert Sugar, after all and old enough to be my dad, so he get's brownie points for being older and, conversely, probably more knowledgeable...well, obviously more knowledgeable. I'm assuming this is a "P4P" list, btw; but will also consider this a "technique" list as well.

1) Ray Robinson
2) Hank Armstrong
3) Willie Pep
4) Joe Louis
5) Harry Greb
6) Benny Leonard
7) Muhammad Ali
8) Roberto Duran too low...by just a bit
9) Jack Dempsey probably too high
10) Jack Johnson
11) Mickey Walker
12) Tony Canzoneri
13) Gene Tunney too high, considering the rest of the list
14) Rocky Marciano
15) Joe Gans
16) Sam Langford probably a bit too low
17) Julio Cesar Chavez
18) Jimmy Wilde too low, me thinks
19) Stanley Ketchel
20) Barney Ross
21) Jimmy McClarnin
22) Archie Moore
23) Marcel Cerdan
24) Ezzard Charles should be higher
25) Ray Leonard
26) The Original Joe Walcott
27) Jake Lamotta
28) Eder Jofre probably too low
29) Emile Griffith
30) Terry McGivern
31) George Foreman way too high
32) Johnny Dundee
33) Jose Napoles too low
34) Pascual Perez
35) Billy Conn probably a bit too low
36) Ruben Olivares
37) Joe Frazier
38) Tommy Loughran
39) Sandy Saddler too low, IMO
40) Kid Chocolate
41) Abe Attell
42) Evander Holyfield considering he was a two division titlist, too low.
43) George Dixon
44) Maxie Rosenbloom
45) Larry Holmes Too low
46) Ted 'Kid' Lewis
47) Marvin Hagler too low
48) Pernell Whitaker way too low
49) Carlos Zarate too low
50) Thomas Hearns
51) Battling Nelson
52) Beau Jack
53) Ricardo Lopez
54) John L Sullivan
55) Carlos Monzon Waaayy too low
56) Alexis Arguello
57) Carmen Basilio
58) Pete Herman
59) Charley Burley never saw him; but from what I've read...too low
60) Ike Williams
61) Kid Gavilan
62) Jack Britton
63) **** Tiger
64) Pancho Villa
65) Panama Al Brown
66) Bob Fitzsimmons too Low...waaay too low
67) Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68) Tiger Flowers
69) James J Corbett father of modern boxing...too low
70) Tony Zale
71) Tommy Ryan
72) Georges Carpentier
73) Sonny Liston
74) Kid McCoy
75) Bob Foster
76) Freddie Welsh
77) Joe Jeanette
78) Jim Driscoll
79) Jersey Joe Walcott
80) Peter Jackson
81) Ad Wolgast
82) Jack Dempsey nonpareil too low
83) Manuel Ortiz
84) Jim Jeffries
85) Salvador Sanchez
86) Jimmy Barry
87) Carlos Ortiz
88) Roy Jones jr. too low; but understandable....Jones's competition didn't help him
89) Wilfredo Gomez
90) Aaron Pryor too low me thinks
91) Bernard Hopkins
92) Mike Gibbons
93) Jack Delaney
94) Johnny Kilbane
95) Willie Ritchie
96) Wilfred Benitez
97) Packy MacFarland
98) Rocky Graziano
99) Lew Jenkins
100) Mike Tyson[/QUOTE] too low