Lewis vs. prime Tyson... who would have won?

[Guest]

Definitely check out some of Larry's fights if you want a lesson on the sweet science. Imo, I can't think of a heavyweight in the history of boxing who had a better jab than Larry, I think he, Ali, and Liston are in a class of their own in this regard. One of the best Holmes' fights I ever saw was hisfight against Ken Norton definitely watch it when you get a chance. Just check this out:

Thankyou for that. I must admit, it's one of the things I'm most ashamed of that my look through boxing's back catalogue has yet to include Larry Holmes. Extremely Ali-like in his style, though that's stating the obvious. (not from that clip, but from what else I've seen).

It's frightening to think how much power Foreman and Shavers had that Holmes could repeatedly land flush on Norton yet not KD him... they both took him out in less than two full rounds.

[K-DOGG]

I've got Larry ranked at #3 on my all-time list. He was indeed something special and all too often underated. On the Norton fight, also take into consideration that Larry's left arm was injured before he entered the ring....he hid it so he wouldn't lose his chance to fight for the belt...that ballsy or what? It was a torn bicept, I think; but I'm not sure. Either way, his jab wasn't even 100% that night and he had to rely on his courage, pain tolerance, and guile.

[The Noose]

Bobby, first off, I do essentially agree with you on the McCall fight. I do think that Lennox was looking past McCall a bit; but feel the reason he got caught had more to do with Correa's instructions. Also, it is important to note that it was a bit of an early stoppage. I think, more than likely, Oliver would have finished him off because there was still 2:30 left in the round; but it's only fair to Lewis to mention that, even thought wobbly, he was on his feet when the figth was stopped.

Secondly, concerning the Mercer fight, I think Lewis fought Ray's fight by design more than anything else. He was fighting in Madison Square Garden in front of a New York crowd and his "toughness" had been questioned because of the McCall fight and the way he didn't exchange with Morrison. I really believe that Lennox wanted to show he had what it took to brawl with a respected brawler....and also be the first person to knock Ray Mercer out. The plan nearly backfired because it was a close fight; but I think that he fought that way by design, stepping out of his element to show "the warrior within" or whatever. Lennox didn't look particularly impressive in that bout because he's not a naturally aggressive fighter....he's a counter=puncher; but he showed heart and grit, which is what I think he was trying to get across to the critics.

Least, that's my take.

Yep, i agree.
Im sure against Tyson he would have fought a different fight, i have to watch Lewis against Morrison.
I think the McCall stoppage was justified. His legs werent there whilst he was protesting to the ref, and his corner said nothing to the ref.

[hollister]

Thankyou for that. I must admit, it's one of the things I'm most ashamed of that my look through boxing's back catalogue has yet to include Larry Holmes. Extremely Ali-like in his style, though that's stating the obvious. (not from that clip, but from what else I've seen).

It's frightening to think how much power Foreman and Shavers had that Holmes could repeatedly land flush on Norton yet not KD him... they both took him out in less than two full rounds.

Yeah alot of people have been down on Norton, saying that his chin is weak, etc. His chin was fine, as evidenced by the Holmes fight because Holmes had a hard right hand of his own, it's just that Foreman and Shavers were huge punchers lol

[GasPed]

Uh, hate to rain on your parade, sunshine; but Greg Page was a former WBA champ when Ruddock beat him....and he'd beaten Gerrie Coetzee for that belt back in 1984, if I'm not mistaken.....or did I completely misread your post?

Nope you got me - my bad . For some reason I got facts mixed up - I thought Bonecrusher had won back the WBA title before he fought Greg Page, when in fact it was just the WBA Americas title. Whoops!

Anyway though, my point still stands - Razor Ruddock was doing just fine after Tyson, until he met Lewis.

[PATO 1]

anyone who argues that tyson has a better record than lewis are ******,

Lewis dominated a division for longer and with better fighter in it, he never ducked anyone (like tyson ducked him), and he has never qujit or bitten anyone in a ring

end of

[K-DOGG]

Norton's chin was average, IMO. The reason he got blasted away by Norton, Shavers, and Cooney (old on the last two, I know) was due to styles. Norton was an aggressive counterpuncher who couldn't fight going backwards. Against Ali and Holmes, both decent punchers, Norton got to be the aggressor and was more within his element; but against Foreman, Shavers, and Cooney he was forced to fight backing up, which he wasn't good at, and he was caught flush more often...and by deadly punchers.

[hollister]

and he has never qujit or bitten anyone in a ring

end of

Seriously, not even a nibble?

lol

[K-DOGG]

Nope you got me - my bad . For some reason I got facts mixed up - I thought Bonecrusher had won back the WBA title before he fought Greg Page, when in fact it was just the WBA Americas title. Whoops!

Anyway though, my point still stands - Razor Ruddock was doing just fine after Tyson, until he met Lewis.

Happens to the best of us, mate. No worries.....and, your point about Ruddock not being considered shot is accurate. I, personally, wasn't that impressed with his win over Page because he looked as one-dimensional as ever, looking for that one big hook....I actually had Page in the fight because of it; but I didn't think Lewis would beat him.

I remember what Larry Merchant said before the fight; and I took it to heart for future reference when ranking a fighter. He said, "Ruddock's reputation is built on two losses; and you have to be suspect of a guy who is ranked because of a loss".

Words of wisdom there for anyone who hasn't already come to that conclusion. I know I learned something that night.

Does that mean that Ruddock was shot? Not necessarily; but any fifghter who's ranked on a brave loss needs to be looked at twice...maybe even three times.

[GasPed]

Does that mean that Ruddock was shot? Not necessarily; but any fifghter who's ranked on a brave loss needs to be looked at twice...maybe even three times.

I completely agree that Ruddock was probably not as good a fighter as he was initially given credit for. Of course, what does that say about the people who struggled to beat him?...

But someone else brought up this point, and I think it is a good one - just when was Lewis in his prime? I think we can all point to that period in Tyson's career (1986-1989) when he looked unbeatable and had many very impressive outings, with numerous early KO's strung together. But Lewis never really did anything like that. Right after Ruddock for example, he had three lackluster wins against Tucker, Bruno and Jackson before McCall Ko'd him. And after Golota (his peak fight, IMO), he struggled against Briggs and Mavrovic.

So it's hard to know what a peak Lewis really looked like. I maintain the one who dismantled Golota would handle Tyson. But the one who struggled with Mavrovic, well, Iron Mike could probably have eaten him and his children in about 2 rounds. So there you go...

However, credit to Lewis, he did in the end, beat everyone he ever faced in the ring, even if he didn't always look great doing it...