Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Sonny Liston, Ryan Garcia, Heavyweights, More

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Sonny Liston suffering his loss to Muhammad Ali, the top five best heavyweights of this era, young fighters stepping up earlier for tough bouts, and more.
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[Bigchip]

That substance stuff is a bunch of crap. The SAME substance would’ve gotten into Liston’s eyes too. Bottom line is the NOI threatened Liston and KO snapped some people. He took a dive. Clay becomes Ali. Gallender has the best proof ever that Liston was almost 50 when he fought Ali. As far as the punch in Maine (think about why it was there instead of LV or NY or CA and you’ll conclude the fix was in, Walcott notwithstanding), this is the SAME Charles “Sonny” Liston who got punched in the jaw, the guy broke his jaw with a punch, and Sonny kept fighting with the same expression like nothing happened.

If you don’t think the Ali fights were fixed, you need to be shipped off this planet. Malcolm X knew, NOI knew and was complicit, the wise guys knew, the bookies knew, and Liston knew.

The Gallender book gives as much proof about this man’s life in and out of the ring that you ever knew. But therein lies the problem.

How many people in 2021 are going to research The Sonny Liston story? It was, is, and will always be about Clay/Ali. All we can do is deliver information and hope people do their fair share of (proper) research.

[anonymous2.0]

Don't the Reynosos have 6 fighters they're training? Frankie Sanchez, Andy Ruiz, Nery, Garcia, Valdez, Canelo?

[ShoulderRoll]

More young guys should take the risk to be great like Teofimo did.
Who cares if they lose? You learn more from a loss sometimes than from a win. If you use that to get better then you are playing to win the long game.

Look at Canelo. He lost to Floyd but became a much improved fighter afterwards because he paid attention and added to his skill set. Now he's on top of the world.

Meanwhile there are countless guys who just protected their 0 instead, and as a result they stunted their development as fighters.

[PittyPat]

Bread sounds rejuvinated on these past few weeks' mailbags. Good to see less of the contemporary fighter mythical match-ups ("Canelo vs Fury who wins???!!!111") or Crawford–Spence, and more in-depth knowledge about boxing training. I feel like I'm learning how to train just by reading from someone who knows his shit.

[kushking]

Good read but I disagree completely about Haney being among the best jabbers,hes faced NoBody elite,& imho hes still very green,he is the kind of fighter that will be ready for the best by mid 20s imho but I don't think hes ready now,hes not the type of very young prodigies whose ready for the best at such a young age,fighters like Teo/Ortiz/Canelo/& to a lesser degree boots Ennis are the kind of young prodigys who make Haney want to get ahead of himself imo because they're special prodigy talents.(boots too is still green,but imo already is at a higher level than Haney for his weight)

I think Smith had a "decent"jab(it was known as his best punch with his left hook to the body) but Canelo took that Jab away from early on by hammering that cartilage & tendons in his arm & shoulder which meant he was unable to use the arm properly the entire fight. (Canelo makes fighters go into survival mode once they realize if they don't they'll get kod by the lil midget they wrote off as too small,Smith is the latest to make that mistake,Jacobs too said Canelo would get stopped & was too small for him. Great left hooks or jabs can only go so far if your opponent is more skillful,& thats why I don't think Haneys jabs that great(because he is not that great at the moment, therefore his jab often leads to him getting hit with a power shot just to land a jab & having a great jab entails a jab that can land cleanly at will without getting hit with a left hook, straight right,& even uppercut like Haney does against C levels)

Ggg too was lauded for his jab as well as r hook,but v Canelo he abandoned everything except the jab & no rotation arm punches in both fights especially The rematch,because that was the only way he could keep Canelo from hitting him with single left hooks to the head/body & right hands in 2 punch combos to the jaw & tumtum.

[1Eriugenus]

Wisdom, as always, from Bread.

I was always told that an orthodox fighter should always try & get his lead foot inside the southpaw's lead foot, that was boxing orthodoxy BUT like Bread says, that's a maybe overrated idea.

[1Eriugenus]

Main things I know about Sonny Liston
1 He was a v clever & interesting man & witty & amusing as well
2 He was maligned by the American press in general but, particularly, by a PoS called Larry Merchant
3 He was a mob guy. His management team were Frankie Carbo & Blinky Palermo FGS!
4 He drank heavily. It is, therefore, v unlikely he was a schmecker. So, when he was found dead with Heroin in his arm, Sonny didn't put it there.
5 There was a book that suggested he was killed by, of all people, Red Rodney! I saw Red Rodney perform in Sheffield shortly before he died. He seemed like a good-natured guy who'd lived a lot. You can't play trumpet like Red & go round murdering MoFos, I don't buy it.

[The D3vil]

That substance stuff is a bunch of crap. The SAME substance would’ve gotten into Liston’s eyes too. Bottom line is the NOI threatened Liston and KO snapped some people. He took a dive. Clay becomes Ali. Gallender has the best proof ever that Liston was almost 50 when he fought Ali. As far as the punch in Maine (think about why it was there instead of LV or NY or CA and you’ll conclude the fix was in, Walcott notwithstanding), this is the SAME Charles “Sonny” Liston who got punched in the jaw, the guy broke his jaw with a punch, and Sonny kept fighting with the same expression like nothing happened.

If you don’t think the Ali fights were fixed, you need to be shipped off this planet. Malcolm X knew, NOI knew and was complicit, the wise guys knew, the bookies knew, and Liston knew.

The Gallender book gives as much proof about this man’s life in and out of the ring that you ever knew. But therein lies the problem.

How many people in 2021 are going to research The Sonny Liston story? It was, is, and will always be about Clay/Ali. All we can do is deliver information and hope people do their fair share of (proper) research.

Stop it.

Sonny Liston had mafia homies who would and could kill everybody in the NOI.

All he had to do was tell his friends the Nation was giving him problems and it'd be taken care of.

Also, they would've never let the NOI control a fight that so much money was riding on.

You'd be more credible saying that Liston's mafia friends told him to take a dive because he was in debt to them or something.

If the Nation had that much stroke in boxing, then where's all the other NOI champions?

Fact is, the Nation has never had any power whatsoever except within the Black community. They have and would never be allowed to exert any real force on something that would lose a bunch of white people money.

[TexasCowBoy]

That substance stuff is a bunch of crap. The SAME substance would’ve gotten into Liston’s eyes too. Bottom line is the NOI threatened Liston and KO snapped some people. He took a dive. Clay becomes Ali. Gallender has the best proof ever that Liston was almost 50 when he fought Ali. As far as the punch in Maine (think about why it was there instead of LV or NY or CA and you’ll conclude the fix was in, Walcott notwithstanding), this is the SAME Charles “Sonny” Liston who got punched in the jaw, the guy broke his jaw with a punch, and Sonny kept fighting with the same expression like nothing happened.

If you don’t think the Ali fights were fixed, you need to be shipped off this planet. Malcolm X knew, NOI knew and was complicit, the wise guys knew, the bookies knew, and Liston knew.

The Gallender book gives as much proof about this man’s life in and out of the ring that you ever knew. But therein lies the problem.

How many people in 2021 are going to research The Sonny Liston story? It was, is, and will always be about Clay/Ali. All we can do is deliver information and hope people do their fair share of (proper) research.

I wasn't born yet when Ali vs Liston fought but my old man told me about these 2 characters.....