Will people ever STOP OVERRATING old primitive era boxers with little skill?

[Ascended]

I agree many fans over hype the old legends saying they would dominate today when realistically athletes improve over time.
But Dempsey was a skilled fighter and helped adapt the bob and weave style we see today in boxing. Guys like Dempsey, Louis, Armstrong, Tunney and so on help boxing become what it is today with their skill and deserve credit for that. Also I believe if Ray Robinson fought in modern era he would be a champion today but only him lol.

thats not true cause ray was outdated he would need to advanced and no its not over hype these people crazy saying stuff like louis and jack would land and beat people like fury yet facing nothing like these guys its crazy like both of these guys move like trash compared and missing mutiple advances

[Ascended]

What you just described is evolution its real and it amazes me that people think boxing missed out on that.

they didnt miss out they are crazy and pretend to be blind all of them need a dr its obvious its something wrong in their mind to not admit the obvious on video

[Good ol' Douglas]

1. I see no proof of this first point. Are you confusing the principle that a good big man beats a good small man?

2. Again how can you guarantee that? It's an assumption. Look I was defending Fury, even describing his ko percentage as good when people were calling him feather fisted... I'm a fan, but you simply do not know that. A lot of factors go into punching power... Speed, mass, form,etc.


3. Liston's size was not the issue, it was his reach. No genetic factors, lol, evolution takes a while! It's really a matter of preference... BUT your correct about the average heavy weight... But so what? The elite guys are not reflecting this change, only an average.

4. Dude you started out saying exceptions to size regarding... And keep qualifying it lol. After a few... The more exceptions to the rule... Not laughing at you but you see how it is amusing you're last point?

Saying that "Liston's size was not the issue" is simply untrue given he was the bigger boxer in the vast majority of his bouts. Taller men also tend to have longer reaches and the ability to put more mass on their larger frame, so what point are you trying to make exactly?

Genetics determine all your attributes, not just mass. Environmental factors only affect to what degree you hit your maximum potential. In this case, modern era boxers have the benefit of superior nutrition, medicine and training methods which perfectly explains size increases over time. You could also argue that the material comforts provided by modern life allows children to specialise in athletic pursuits from a younger age.

You confuse biological evolution with technological evolution and growth in knowledge.

I have provided statistical evidence for how smaller HWs are easier to KO and that HW champions have been getting vastly bigger over time.

So are you going to provide evidence for your nostalgia-backed claims or keep wasting my time? Exceptions do not disprove the general rule.

[Ascended]

Saying that "Liston's size was not the issue" is simply untrue given he was the bigger boxer in the vast majority of his bouts. Taller men also tend to have longer reaches and the ability to put more mass on their larger frame, so what point are you trying to make exactly?

Genetics determine all your attributes, not just mass. Environmental factors only affect to what degree you hit your maximum potential. In this case, modern era boxers have the benefit of superior nutrition, medicine and training methods which perfectly explains size increases over time. You could also argue that the material comforts provided by modern life allows children to specialise in athletic pursuits from a younger age.

You confuse biological evolution with technological evolution and growth in knowledge.

I have provided statistical evidence for how smaller HWs are easier to KO and that HW champions have been getting vastly bigger over time.

So are you going to provide evidence for your nostalgia-backed claims or keep wasting my time? Exceptions do not disprove the general rule.

Your wasting time they can't prove anything on video their all crazy

[Good ol' Douglas]

I think heavyweights have grown, but a more interesting conversation is the other weight classes. Today's fighters at 175 and below are better conditioned, trained, and more skilled than the ones from 50 years ago. It's a completely different ball game now than it was 50-100 years ago.

It is not just heavyweights, the lower weight class have dramatically grown in size as well.

They simply cut more weight and then rehydrate today. Hagler, for example, had to abide by same-day weigh-ins and would probably be a Spence-sized WW in the modern era.

You see it a lot in MMA as well. Fighters killing themselves to weight bully or avoid getting weight-bullied by bigger fellas in their natural weight division.

[Good ol' Douglas]

Your wasting time they can't prove anything on video their all crazy

They bring no video analysis or data to the table when the burden of proof is on them.

All they do is say "that is not true" and regurgitate some nonsense about how the old school boxers were just built different.

It is purely nostalgia speaking. They want their special heroes to be anomalies that deviate from the objective development of sporting achievement throughout history.

[Blond Beast]

Jim Brown always comes to mind in thought experiments like this.
Would he look as good in any decade as is? Or do you have to imagine him trained, adapted, coached, prepared to face the challenges of the different eras?

[Ascended]

They bring no video analysis or data to the table when the burden of proof is on them.

All they do is say "that is not true" and regurgitate some nonsense about how the old school boxers were just built different.

It is purely nostalgia speaking. They want their special heroes to be anomalies that deviate from the objective development of sporting achievement throughout history.

So you noticed that to its odd I have asked these people since last year to prove me wrong by video why is that so hard if im wrong expose me by video why is words said to me instead of video

I asked a crazy person why you said louis was outdated like i always say and he said your clueless like what is it to be clueless about a video showing that what i say is like i said these people are weird

[Roadblock]

Jim Brown always comes to mind in thought experiments like this.
Would he look as good in any decade as is? Or do you have to imagine him trained, adapted, coached, prepared to face the challenges of the different eras?

That is one aspect of it in that a champion has a champion's heart no matter what era they in, now you can take a strong healthy person from any time in the last 200 years and train him by modern standards and he could get into the condition of the modern fighter, all of that side of it can be copied, but the technique is another matter, at some point from Jack Johnson style to the current styles there is a cross over point, I think that cross over is the beginning of the Ray Robinson era, from him onwards the teaching of boxing has evolved to where it is, before Robinson I feel you could get them in superb condition but the technique would let them down, all of sport is won and lost in a millisecond, the modern defense footwork, distance control, angles and punching technique would beat them.

Can only wonder histories matchups if we had a time machine.

[Ascended]

That is one aspect of it in that a champion has a champion's heart no matter what era they in, now you can take a strong healthy person from any time in the last 200 years and train him by modern standards and he could get into the condition of the modern fighter, all of that side of it can be copied, but the technique is another matter, at some point from Jack Johnson style to the current styles there is a cross over point, I think that cross over is the beginning of the Ray Robinson era, from him onwards the teaching of boxing has evolved to where it is, before Robinson I feel you could get them in superb condition but the technique would let them down, all of sport is won and lost in a millisecond, the modern defense footwork, distance control, angles and punching technique would beat them.

Can only wonder histories matchups if we had a time machine.

Johnson was trash same as louis and dempsey all these dudes are trash on a skill and movement level compared to 70s-90s its easy to see yet these names are talked of like they are skilled compared its really odd