Comments Thread For: Chavez: Canelo is Pound-For-Pound Best, But Crawford More Complete

[Combat Talk Radio]

I feel like you’re tricking me. Aren’t you a Crawford fan?

No.

I recognize some skill, certainly. Fan? Absolutely not. I'm never a fan of active fighters who claim to be #1 P4P but refuse to prove it against anyone notable AND makes excuses for why he can't fight the best.

Additionally, I'm the only one around here who keeps talking about the fact that Crawford has an asterisk next to every. Single. One. of his 147 wins. All of them.

I think people give fighters a lot of credit for looking great against average opposition. And penalize more experienced fighters who might have looked more vulnerable because they fought better opponents.

I don’t know what you think about Naoya Inoue, I think he is really good, but he is ranked #2 without an elite win yet. Donaire is not elite. He’s a past prime fighter who still has some gas left in his tank.

I don't rate Inoue, though I seem him as a good fighter.

Meanwhile, Pacquiao arguably goes on a 6 fight win streak after Mayweather, beating Bradley, Vargas, (Losing to Horn in a somewhat controversial dec), Matthysse, Broner and Thurman and he is removed from the top 10 P4P list. Going back to 2019 to present, Pacquiao’s win over Thurman is among the top 10 best wins. Better than any win on Inoue, Spence or Crawford’s resume, who are all ranked in the top 5 P4P.

I don't disagree.

But at the same time, we do have to look at some more data.

Did Manny look dominant against Keef? I say no, except for two rounds - the round where Keef got dropped and the round where Keef took a body shot that he overreacted to. Vast majority of the fight was Manny on the defensive. And Compubox numbers back up that observation.

But with Spence/Porter, not only did Spence take the fight to a guy that Crawford refuses to even consider, Spence came off looking like the more dominant fighter even with Porter's constant aggression.

I still think Manny should be in the Top 10, but I also think Spence deserves to be there, too.

[elfag]

If fighter x retains his speed & skills with his boxing IQ, would he be the best across all weight classes?
This is how I define the mythical pound for pound status.
Applying this, imagine a fighter x, in the same weight division as Canelo, but having Loma's skill set & boxing IQ, now if I feel fighter x, with these attributes beats Canelo, then of course, I have to place him above Canelo in my pound for pound rankings.

I try to keep their attributes as they are for their weight class and carry those to what they would be relative to their new weight class.


For example if i matched loma vs a heavyweight, i wouldnt keep loma's actual speed and the heavyweights actual power, but I would match their relative attributes, so loma would be a fast heavyweight with t rex arms and medium power.

[Jab jab boom]

P4p is supposed to be about who would win if everyone was the same size. If that was the case, Crawford would smoke Canelo. He's too dynamic for him offensively.

[DeeMoney]

If fighter x retains his speed & skills with his boxing IQ, would he be the best across all weight classes?
This is how I define the mythical pound for pound status.
Applying this, imagine a fighter x, in the same weight division as Canelo, but having Loma's skill set & boxing IQ, now if I feel fighter x, with these attributes beats Canelo, then of course, I have to place him above Canelo in my pound for pound rankings.

This is roughly how I do mine too. I mean measuring credentials is fine, but it becomes a bit too formulaic- and ignores that not all fighters have the same opportunity to achieve equal resumes.

This is why I like your way, or at least something similar. I try to evaluate relative ability (strength, speed, etc) towards one weight class and then if fighter retained those abilities, relative to their new weight class (same as you) with the skillset IQ- as you already mentioned. The one skill I think should also be considered is relative size (mostly height and reach). Consider how important size was to someone like Tommy Hearns at welterweight. Height and reach relative to weight is an important factor.

[Josef Devu]

Canelo defense and iQ

Canelo is way ahead of crawford on boxing skills and iQ,I know Chavez would not concede or agree about canelo elite defense..I’m not a canelo fan but it’s like art when you see him boxing and doing the waist and head movements to make fighters miss..great defense skill set

[Vnecaxa]

Clenelo will lose against any elite fighter with a high throwing punches rate. He just doesn't have the stamina to box during 3 minutes for 12 rounds. There are several boxers that will beat the redhead in a fair fight in and out of the ring. Benavidez, Beterbiev, Plant and Charlo would probably beat him, but he'll most likely avoid them.

[KING5TWENTY]

Nah if they were the same size I think Crawford would get knocked unconscious

[budfr]

Chavez Sr. is right. Canelo is the p4p best becuase of the level of oponents but Crawford has better skills. Well said !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[budfr]

Crawford did it without the use of PEDs which makes it a lot more impressive. Clenelos two best names on his resume GGG and Floyd he lost to. His two best wins outside of them you could say Kovalev and Jacobs. Sorry that doesn’t make you P4P #1.

Floyd basically ran vs Canelo, who was weight drained and didn´t know the Afro-American style of Philly shell and hugging. Canelo said " Floyd can´t punch, just outpoints, no power and Floyd never gave him a rematch. By the way Floyd never fought GGG, Margarito, Williams, Sergio Martinez, volume punchers so Floys was never the P4P best. Only for the American media who didn´t want to sound racist ( in public ) and by African-American fans.

[Carpe Diem]

You know it's interesting.

He and some of NSB say that Crawford is a more "complete" fighter.

Kev, you strike me as someone who knows boxing really well. Can you help me analyze the below...can you recall Carnelo Alvarez being in any of these three situations?

Yep. Straight up and down, no special effects. He constantly squares up and set up punches from his hip. He’s very lucky that there aren’t that many great counter-punchers at the Welterweight division who’d expose all of his fundamental flaws.