Comments Thread For: Chavez: Canelo is Pound-For-Pound Best, But Crawford More Complete

[-Kev-]

First one is BoMac saying before the fight that Kavaliauskas is a C-level fighter.

Second is Crawford getting wobbled and dropped by that (apparently) C-level fighter.

Third is Crawford getting Bambi treatment by Gamboa.

I’ve seen the Kav and Gamboa one’s. He was hurt pretty bad in them.

I haven’t watched all 56 of Canelo’s pro fights, I may have seen his first fight in 2009. But from what I can recall he has been visibly hurt, if I recall correctly, once vs Jose Cotto. But I think he was like 19-20, he had just turned 20 I think, because I remember the announcers mentioning it. He looked small in that fight. I think it was at 147lbs.

[Thuglife Nelo]

How about Gallo Estrada? He has more skills than Canelo, as does Chocolatito.

Ellaborate with “more skills.” Estrada and Chocolatito are rather basic compared to Canelo.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I’ve seen the Kav and Gamboa one’s. He was hurt pretty bad in them.

I haven’t watched all 56 of Canelo’s pro fights, I may have seen his first fight in 2009. But from what I can recall he has been visibly hurt, if I recall correctly, once vs Jose Cotto. But I think he was like 19-20, he had just turned 20 I think, because I remember the announcers mentioning it. He looked small in that fight. I think it was at 147lbs.

I know you're at work but, here's the video you're referencing, Round 1 where Jose was giving him the business and Carnelo was eating punches.





So basically, with Carnelo, you'd have to go back in time 10 years, with an opponent that was nearly his equal in terms of record and status at the time.


With Crawford, one needs only go back less than 5 years to find the same with two opponents, both significant underdogs.

So Kev, given this data, can you help me understand this "more complete" that's being thrown about?

[Letmaku]

Work harder for your dreams might come true someday if you are really passionate about boxing.

[TheBoxGod]

Very true.

Looking at their resumes, Crawford’s resume is equal to guys like Angulo, Kirkland, Khan, Chavez Jr, Liam Smith, Josesito Lopez on Canelo’s resume. Crawford’s best wins are on par with the opponents Canelo gets sh/t for fighting. Canelo overthrows Crawford with his wins over GGG, Lara, Cotto, Jacobs, Kovalev, Trout.

I was a fan of Crawford, and beating Gamboa and Postol made me like him more, I was excited to see who else he would fight. His wins over Klimov, Burns and Beltran were good too. After 2016 his opponent selection took a really big dump. You would think his opponent selection would get better than B/C level after Postol. He’s had straight up average opponents from Molina Jr to Kavaliauskas. All average. Now he is fighting a Kell Brook who’s last good win was 2014 vs Porter. At 33, he is running out of time to make a statement. He is rated in the top 3 P4P based on how he looks vs B and C class fighters.

I 100% completely agree with everything you said here. Let me just say I am a crawford fan aswell I used to be excited when he fights but like you said since the postol fight his resume just took a huge slump. I believe he is a WILLINGLY victim of his promoter's refusal to do fights with other promotional outfits. We have seen Jose Ramiriez willing to and has made fights happen outside of Top Rank and theirs no reason to think Crawford cannot aswell other than he doesnt want to. Crawford vs Porter, Crawford vs DSG, Crawford vs Thurman, at least one of these fights should have ALREADY happened.

[-Kev-]

I know you're at work but, here's the video you're referencing, Round 1 where Jose was giving him the business and Carnelo was eating punches.





So basically, with Carnelo, you'd have to go back in time 10 years, with an opponent that was nearly his equal in terms of record and status at the time.


With Crawford, one needs only go back less than 5 years to find the same with two opponents, both significant underdogs.

So Kev, given this data, can you help me understand this "more complete" that's being thrown about?

I feel like you’re tricking me. Aren’t you a Crawford fan?

I think people give fighters a lot of credit for looking great against average opposition. And penalize more experienced fighters who might have looked more vulnerable because they fought better opponents.

I don’t know what you think about Naoya Inoue, I think he is really good, but he is ranked #2 without an elite win yet. Donaire is not elite. He’s a past prime fighter who still has some gas left in his tank.

Meanwhile, Pacquiao arguably goes on a 6 fight win streak after Mayweather, beating Bradley, Vargas, (Losing to Horn in a somewhat controversial dec), Matthysse, Broner and Thurman and he is removed from the top 10 P4P list. Going back to 2019 to present, Pacquiao’s win over Thurman is among the top 10 best wins. Better than any win on Inoue, Spence or Crawford’s resume, who are all ranked in the top 5 P4P.

[-Kev-]

I know you're at work but, here's the video you're referencing, Round 1 where Jose was giving him the business and Carnelo was eating punches.





So basically, with Carnelo, you'd have to go back in time 10 years, with an opponent that was nearly his equal in terms of record and status at the time.


With Crawford, one needs only go back less than 5 years to find the same with two opponents, both significant underdogs.

So Kev, given this data, can you help me understand this "more complete" that's being thrown about?

I got on a diff pc and was able to watch it. So he was 19. And damn, he was REALLY hurt there, worse than I remember. Also, for a 19 year old, he did pretty great in weathering Jose Cotto’s punches after getting hurt. That could have been a career altering fight right there. To have the patience and will to fight him off and recover. I remember the forum going in on him for getting hurt, saying he’s a bum and he will get KO’ed soon. Funny because most people don’t know that you literally get better in boxing the more you do it, especially when you are really young. Like he could have lost that fight and still became better. It wasn’t like he was doomed to fail like Jorge Linares or Amir Khan due to chin issues.

[elfag]

head to head at the same size I think canelo beats crawford.

I think canelo is more skilled, he has different styles, he can fight backing up or walking you down.

Crawford is a great switch hitter with better reach but canelo is faster and more proven. Yeah it is hard to ignore differences in opposition, so I am cheating a bit there but it is easy to look skillful against nobodies, we have more proof of canelo's skills against varied styles and against very good fighters.

[Walexhris]

If fighter x retains his speed & skills with his boxing IQ, would he be the best across all weight classes?
This is how I define the mythical pound for pound status.
Applying this, imagine a fighter x, in the same weight division as Canelo, but having Loma's skill set & boxing IQ, now if I feel fighter x, with these attributes beats Canelo, then of course, I have to place him above Canelo in my pound for pound rankings.

[BoxingGuru619]

Crawford is a great fighter with good power, but I still haven’t seen how good he really is unfortunately. He’s beaten khan, horn and Benavidez.

It’s too sad that he didn’t just go over to the PBC instead of resigning with Top Rank. He knows that the biggest names at welterweight are with the PBC, but he decided to stay with top rank? That’s beyond me.

I look at pacquiao switching to the PBC at 40 years old and immediately got fights with Broner and thurman and became a world champion again.

Crawford could have went to the PBC and gotten fights with porter and possibly Danny and spence.