Comments Thread For: Danny Gonzalez, Unbeaten Mayweather Prospect, Shot and Killed

[ShoulderRoll]

People need clarity is all, world ain't changed by heroes but by us - people - acting together, besides today's hero is often tomorrows tyrant. Problem is dudes in charge know this and do everything they can to keep us fearful or resentful of one another, make us feel our interests are more aligned with theirs than with each others. Hell they even got us arguing over who really is in charge...

Sometimes the big picture stuff can be too big though, I find it easier to focus on the local shit... just be good to those around you, make a difference in your community and try to be an example. Not only do millions of people doing small good things improve shit more than any government ever could it also builds the bonds between us. And if - or when - the shit does hit the fan, it's going be those in your community, your friends, neighbours, who you're gonna need to rely on, who are gonna rely on you.

We need people who will take a stand against these street gangs and shut them down.

If our corrupt police and court and political systems won't do it then the people will have to. But I don't see little old ladies and grandpas being able to, hence the call for heroes or warriors to emerge. Just like societies have had throughout time.

[Citizen Koba]

We need people who will take a stand against these street gangs and shut them down.

If our corrupt police and court and political systems won't do it then the people will have to. But I don't see little old ladies and grandpas being able to, hence the call for heroes or warriors to emerge. Just like societies have had throughout time.

Vigilantes? Private security forces? Unless you address the underlying problems it doesn't matter how many people you put inside, or god forbid, kill. Problems just gonna grow back cept your bad guys get smarter, more ruthless. Neighbourhoods tend to get better when enough folk are invested in 'em, when they own shit, property, businesses. When you got an economic system that leaves millions marginalised or without decent incomes - without feeling like they got a stake in society then that's kinda what happens, predatory crime, a shadow economy, drugs and other means of escapism. You can always go the authoritarian route I guess, but that doesn't usually end too well either...

Thorny problem, man. I got ideas but I ain't got the answers, though it doesn't look like what the US has going on right now is working too well. Doesn't look to me like the UKs heading for a particularly rosy future either.

[ShoulderRoll]

Vigilantes? Private security forces? Unless you address the underlying problems it doesn't matter how many people you put inside, or god forbid, kill. Problems just gonna grow back cept your bad guys get smarter, more ruthless. Neighbourhoods tend to get better when enough folk are invested in 'em, when they own shit, property, businesses. When you got an economic system that leaves millions marginalised or without decent incomes - without feeling like they got a stake in society then that's kinda what happens, predatory crime, a shadow economy, drugs and other means of escapism. You can always go the authoritarian route I guess, but that doesn't usually end too well either...

Thorny problem, man. I got ideas but I ain't got the answers, though it doesn't look like what the US has going on right now is working too well. Doesn't look to me like the UKs heading for a particularly rosy future either.

People have to take back their neighborhoods and protect them, bro.

Especially with all these idiots wanting to defund the police entirely.

Those who want law and order and peace are simply going to have to fight for it. Or else it's going to be taken away.

[Citizen Koba]

People have to take back their neighborhoods and protect them, bro.

Especially with all these idiots wanting to defund the police entirely.

Those who want law and order and peace are simply going to have to fight for it. Or else it's going to be taken away.

Defunding the police at a time of national crisis is utterly baffling to me, can't say I've always stayed on the right side of the law, but I recognise the necessity for it and for having the means of upholding order, although I also believe that it's more efficient to direct resources at tackling the causes of crime than at policing and punishment.

And yeah, could be that folk will need to take matters into their own hands if no one else will, can't expect folk to sit on their asses if they're directly threatened - we get to vigilantism and mob justice though, you probably already lost the kinda society you want - but like I say the problems just gonna come back unless you fix the unlying issues that lead people to crime and violence.

Also I'd say it's also important to distinguish between those breaking laws... criminals in short, and those using their legitimate right to protest against genuine injustice. Once again law and order is good but you go too far in pursuit of it that ain't so good, 'less you don't mind sacrificing your own freedoms.. that's the authoritarian route I mentioned earlier.

[ShoulderRoll]

Defunding the police at a time of national crisis is utterly baffling to me, can't say I've always stayed on the right side of the law, but I recognise the necessity for it and for having the means of upholding order.

And yeah, could be that folk will need to take matters into their own hands if no one else will, can't expect folk to sit on their asses if they're directly threatened - we get to vigilantism and mob justice though, you probably already lost the kinda society you want - but like I say the problems just gonna come back unless you fix the unlying issues that lead people to crime and violence.

Also I'd say it's also important to distinguish between those breaking laws... criminals in short, and those using their legitimate right to protest against genuine injustice. Once again law and order is good but you go too far in pursuit of it that ain't so good, 'less you don't mind sacrificing your own freedoms.. that's the authoritarian route I mentioned earlier.

Legitimate protests are fine. But property damage and pulling people out of their cars etc. is stepping over the line.

Which is a separate issue from street gang violence which is a big problem in several of the larger American cities.

These things should all be addressed from within the system. But that is not currently happening, and if some of the leftists have their way the system pretty soon is going to be severely disempowered to do anything.

At that point people better be ready because we will be at the mercy of predators. Luckily we still have the right to bear arms and many of us are well-equipped in that area, just in case.

But we should do more now so that it never gets to that point.

[Citizen Koba]

Legitimate protests are fine. But property damage and pulling people out of their cars etc. is stepping over the line.

Which is a separate issue from street gang violence which is a big problem in several of the larger American cities.

These things should all be addressed from within the system. But that is not currently happening, and if some of the leftists have their way the system pretty soon is going to be severely disempowered to do anything.

At that point people better be ready because we will be at the mercy of predators. Luckily we still have the right to bear arms and many of us are well-equipped in that area, just in case.

But we should do more now so that it never gets to that point.

Yeah, we had a little bit of a crossed wire I think, I assumed you were talking about the rioting and violence around the current protests whereas I think you were really refering more to gang violence such as that which looks to have got this kid boxer. They are slightly different though overlapping issues.

Ha ha just spent half an hour perusing literature from the DOJ and several different PDs in the US regarding approaches to gang violence, coupla academic papers too, and they're all saying loosely the same things... you need policing (though overpolicing can cause it's own problems ) but you also need to address the distrust and lack of personal investment within the communities themselves.

Other thing I was looking for was success stories where communities took back power for themselves through community action or vigilantism or whatever... and TBH they're pretty thin on the ground. Maybe you know of some success stories where communities have driven out gang violence? Be interested to see how they went about tackling that kinda **** and how they made it work.

[kidbazooka]

Will never happen. You have been conquered.


Defeated by a people who had the intelligence to rule over you.


Accept it.

Real Americans control America that slob is no American.

that fat **** will be gone soon along with his alien wife.

He’s ruled over inbred hicks that know no better if that’s not you than you shouldn’t be offended or are you a supporter of ****?

[ShoulderRoll]

Yeah, we had a little bit of a crossed wire I think, I assumed you were talking about the rioting and violence around the current protests whereas I think you were really refering more to gang violence such as that which looks to have got this kid boxer. They are slightly different though overlapping issues.

Ha ha just spent half an hour perusing literature from the DOJ and several different PDs in the US regarding approaches to gang violence, coupla academic papers too, and they're all saying loosely the same things... you need policing (though overpolicing can cause it's own problems ) but you also need to address the distrust and lack of personal investment within the communities themselves.

Other thing I was looking for was success stories where communities took back power for themselves through community action or vigilantism or whatever... and TBH they're pretty thin on the ground. Maybe you know of some success stories where communities have driven out gang violence? Be interested to see how they went about tackling that kinda **** and how they made it work.

There are several examples. Such as these:

https://wreg.com/news/neighbors-take...od-from-gangs/

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...236581308.html


There can be different approaches but the key is that the locals feel invested in their communities and take a stand for them.

[champion4ever]

Alot of people are in prison for killing someone who was (or they believed they were) fooling around with their partner.


When I was a younger guy, almost all the fights/beefs I got into were over women. And I'm not a guy who fights over women. Some dudes are just so jealous, and ******, they can't control themselves when another guy comes anywhere near their girl.

That's very true! Unfortunately, this type of attitude tends to happen more frequently over a girlfriend than a wife because of the sex.

[Citizen Koba]

There are several examples. Such as these:

https://wreg.com/news/neighbors-take...od-from-gangs/

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...236581308.html


There can be different approaches but the key is that the locals feel invested in their communities and take a stand for them.

It's good to see that kinda thing, tales of hope, what it also does is make my argument more eloquently than I ever could. If you want to permanently reduce crime you don't need the Magnificent Seven, you don't need Charlie Bronson and you sure as hell don't need Robocop, though you do need heroes... the kind that are gonna spend 4 hours a day waiting at the town hall, or write to the mayor or city councillors once a week, every week till they get a reply... the kind that'll knock on doors rain or shine to drum up support for community projects. Regular folk who don't take no for an answer.

Thing is Law Enforcement knows how you make a real difference to crime - just gotta go look at the DOJ reports on dealing with gangs, so does academia, and practical experience on the ground tells us the same things as shown by the examples you provide above. What makes a difference is having people invested in their community, in their neighbourhood, and what that means is having a stake in it, having the belief that hard work and persistence will make it flourish. Not sure everyone appreciates the degree of cynicism, the lack of hope for the future and lack of trust in offical institutions that exists within many poorer communities after decades of broken election time promises.

And the practical measures? Well some of them are mentioned in the links you provided. Effective and proactive co-operation between community leaders, law enforcement and local government. Affordable housing, community owned businesses, co-operatives maybe, affordable childcare and youth activities to keep kids off the streets, skillshares and timebanks... Community banking and savings and loan facilities run by people who live in and know the community and can provide money to help businesses grow - kinda **** in fact that I been talking about in this and other threads. We know these provide the solutions we want (and this applies as much to the UK or anywhaere else as the US) so why ain't it happening?

Well to my mind you got to look at who might resist such projects and what influence they have... what happens to the housing and rental markets when you build affordable housing? You think the big landlords and realtors who have the ear of politicians will be in favour? You think established regional and national banks like the idea of successful local savings and loans schemes providing an example to others? Watching all the little people take their money to the little community banks? The list goes on.

Yet despite the fact that we know that policies like 'wars on drugs' and 'getting tough on crime' are largely ineffectual, every election time, in every Western democracy the same predictable rhetoric is rolled out as surely as night follows day and we give the same Pavlovian howls of approval... after all is it not more decisive, more goddamn... manly to get tough with the bad guys than to offer wishy washy idealism like helping deprived communities?

Anyways.. probably taken this thread on too much of a tangent, it's really about remembering this kid taken too young, but it is an interesting subject that does warrant more discussion. Giving some thought to restarting it as 'law and order' thread in the lounge... what you think?