Comments Thread For: Rethinking P4P: Trying to Measure Who Beat Who...and When

[crold1]

Cliff...
A nice thought, but the true P4P abilities of each opponent need to be rated, not their rating in TRB.. Crawford's win over Indongo, a two belt holder, should be held in MUCH LOWER REGARD than Dillian Whyte's win over Joseph Parker. Heck, Crawford should get more credit for beating Benavidez than Indongo.... Loma's win over #4 Crolla should not hold as much weight as (in theory) a Canelo win over #4 Andrade. A number beside a name out of default for the depth of the weight class should not supersede overall ability.
When you get that part of the equation correct, you will have a much better picture of 'who has done what'.

The point here is to move away from some of that 'true P4P abilities.' There's plenty of space for those debates. I'm interested in indexing who is fighting real contenders relative to their weight class on a more regular basis and throwing a light on that. There's nothing really doing that.

[xxlefthookxx]

The point here is to move away from some of that 'true P4P abilities.' There's plenty of space for those debates. I'm interested in indexing who is fighting real contenders relative to their weight class on a more regular basis and throwing a light on that. There's nothing really doing that.

Again, I like the thought. I do feel if you are comparing Loma's points to Canelo's points, (which is what this does), you have to give more weight to the caliber of the opponent...not the TRB rating. If you are comparing Loma to other lightweights then this system will hold more weight.

[Bronx2245]

Switch Crawford and Spence and list is fine.

I'm not even sure how Spence is a Top 10 PFP at all. Dude is in his 1st division and has had 1 real fight, maybe 2. And hes 30 now. And he arguably drew with Porter until the KD....

Meanwhile Crawford is undefeated without any asterisks in his 3rd division and hes trying to fight better competition but they wont fight him.

Well we'll give Crawford an "E" for effort, but right now, he is where he is! His last meaningful fight was Gamboa is 2014! Damn shame too!

July 24, 2016:

Terence Crawford: Manny Pacquiao Must Fight Me at 140!

Crawford has no problem with facing Pacquiao but cautions that - "It will be at 140."

"If Bob Arum wants that fight and my coaches want that fight, that's something we'll talk about later. I let my coaches handle that. I am a fighter and I will fight anybody. I'm happy and I'm about to go on vacation. We not worried about Manny Pacquiao right now."

https://www.boxingscene.com/terence-crawford-manny-pacquiao-fight-me-140--107021

Hindsight is 20/20!

[factsarenice]

The list is based upon the assumption that rankings have any validity and that is simply a false premise.

Rankings mean nothing today, they are bought, sold and ignored by corrupt sanctioning bodies and if you don’t get that you’re part of the flat earth anti vaxxer camp.

What is a Franchise champion and were do they rank? Interim, diamond, Silver, Eternal and the anointed champion that has never beaten a belt holder???? How is style avoidance and PED use factored into the ethereal P4P list? I’m sorry but any list based on rankings controlled by stationing bodies with the most prestigious run by mauricio sulaiman is like throwing a rock in the air and not expecting it to hit you because you suspended your belief in gravity.

The ******uous relationship between rankings and money are blatantly transparent easily verified.

I do appreciate the higher level of intelligent debate the list has attracted but I feel like the P4P list is too often cheapened by those that treat with no more care than some impulse item at the dollar store.

[factsarenice]

Great, all Spence needs to do is keep avoiding Crawford and fight the revolving in-house contenders that swap rankings and he'll be #1 without ever braking a sweat. I't's not they way Ali or Sugar Ray did it but they wouldn't get a shot at today's P4P list.

Well we'll give Crawford an "E" for effort, but right now, he is where he is! His last meaningful fight was Gamboa is 2014! Damn shame too!

July 24, 2016:

Terence Crawford: Manny Pacquiao Must Fight Me at 140!

Crawford has no problem with facing Pacquiao but cautions that - "It will be at 140."

"If Bob Arum wants that fight and my coaches want that fight, that's something we'll talk about later. I let my coaches handle that. I am a fighter and I will fight anybody. I'm happy and I'm about to go on vacation. We not worried about Manny Pacquiao right now."

https://www.boxingscene.com/terence-crawford-manny-pacquiao-fight-me-140--107021

Hindsight is 20/20!

[factsarenice]

The point here is to move away from some of that 'true P4P abilities.' There's plenty of space for those debates. I'm interested in indexing who is fighting real contenders relative to their weight class on a more regular basis and throwing a light on that. There's nothing really doing that.

If your "real contender" status is blatantly determined by popularity and money the indexing either accounts for structural corruption or it's inaccurate.

[BoxingIsGreat]

I've always thought P4P was a total fantasy and a joke, but after seeing this, all I can do is . Is this serious? Note to self to never click on one of these threads.

[LoadedWraps]

I've always thought P4P was a total fantasy and a joke, but after seeing this, all I can do is . Is this serious? Note to self to never click on one of these threads.

P4P is about who is the best fighter in the world all things equal (meaning size and weight being equal).

P4P is generally only really a heated debate when the P4P King isn't a HW though, because it's a way of recognizing the best talents in the world when the most physically imposing fighter isn't also the most skilled and gifted specimen as well. It was significant when Floyd topped the list because P4P no one above his weight classes came close for the majority of his career. Now that Fury tops the list, it is a moot point again because what value does comparing Fury to guys like Inoue and Lomachenko in a P4P sense have when he equals to surpasses them in, and outside of that context. Really no fighter would beat Fury in fantasy matchups nor in real life so the true king is accounted for P4P or not.

You don't have to participate of course in P4P discussions but they have value in determining the consensus within samples of fans, who the recognized top guys are irrespective of division, stable, or weight class.

[crold1]

The list is based upon the assumption that rankings have any validity and that is simply a false premise.

Rankings mean nothing today, they are bought, sold and ignored by corrupt sanctioning bodies and if you don’t get that you’re part of the flat earth anti vaxxer camp.

What is a Franchise champion and were do they rank? Interim, diamond, Silver, Eternal and the anointed champion that has never beaten a belt holder???? How is style avoidance and PED use factored into the ethereal P4P list? I’m sorry but any list based on rankings controlled by stationing bodies with the most prestigious run by mauricio sulaiman is like throwing a rock in the air and not expecting it to hit you because you suspended your belief in gravity.

The ******uous relationship between rankings and money are blatantly transparent easily verified.

I do appreciate the higher level of intelligent debate the list has attracted but I feel like the P4P list is too often cheapened by those that treat with no more care than some impulse item at the dollar store.

Agree with a lot of this...which is why I didn't use any sanctioning body ratings. Though it does largely rely on the people that have their belts so there is that element.

[Bronx2245]

Great, all Spence needs to do is keep avoiding Crawford and fight the revolving in-house contenders that swap rankings and he'll be #1 without ever braking a sweat. I't's not they way Ali or Sugar Ray did it but they wouldn't get a shot at today's P4P list.

No it isn't, but there's a lot that's different now for fighters, and I would say most changes (i.e. The Muhammad Ali Act, Free agency) have benefited the fighters. Maybe Bud should follow in the footsteps of Oscar, Floyd, Cotto, Mikey, and Manny? Just a thought. Probably wouldn't hurt to fight Porter instead of Brook @ 147 too!