Comments Thread For: Rethinking P4P: Trying to Measure Who Beat Who...and When

[Combat Talk Radio]

Just to clear up: Doesn't punish Alvarez. It's strictly results based. Alvarez got the credit for the draw anyone would have received. It doesn't take either guys loss into consideration because of how long ago it was.

The article specifically says that losses weigh heavily against you.

BY that measure, Loma should not be above Carnelo. Because Loma lost to an UNRANKED, UNHERALDED, DOUBLE DIGIT LOSS OPPONENT. Meanwhile he doesn't even have 20 fights.

While Carnelo lost to the #1 Welterweight, #1 P4P, the best at the time. 3x the amount of fights, 3x the amount of wins and titles in four weight classes.

It's not close.

[crold1]

The article specifically says that losses weigh heavily against you.

BY that measure, Loma should not be above Carnelo. Because Loma lost to an UNRANKED, UNHERALDED, DOUBLE DIGIT LOSS OPPONENT. Meanwhile he doesn't even have 20 fights.

While Carnelo lost to the #1 Welterweight, #1 P4P, the best at the time. 3x the amount of fights, 3x the amount of wins and titles in four weight classes.

It's not close.

I’m saying for this comparison neither of those results mattered for either guy. This only assessed activity in one’s last five fights and/or three years.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I’m saying for this comparison neither of those results mattered for either guy. This only assessed activity in one’s last five fights and/or three years.

Carnelo knocking out Kov far surpasses anything Loma has done.

It's not close, bro.

[Cypocryphy]

Carnelo knocking out Kov far surpasses anything Loma has done.

It's not close, bro.

Really? Are you actually saying this? Pu pu pu pleaaaaazzze. You certainly sound strangely bitter about this list. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how you're coming across. You saw the "math." It was about getting a draw and majority decision with Gennady. Had he lost as he should have, he wouldn't even be on this list.

And, in the spirit of boxing, are you really having that fight mean something to you when Kovalev had a two month camp, was dehydrated because of that contract and had even professional boxers alleging that the fight look fixed? Come on now. You can't bring up that fight as having any true significance. It was like watching a WWE match, in reality.

This list is actually pretty good, with a good system of ranking the last three years. As far as who could be added, I can't think of anyone at the moment, taking into account the last three years of boxing.

[ToMeKeMoT]

The article specifically says that losses weigh heavily against you.

BY that measure, Loma should not be above Carnelo. Because Loma lost to an UNRANKED, UNHERALDED, DOUBLE DIGIT LOSS OPPONENT. Meanwhile he doesn't even have 20 fights.

While Carnelo lost to the #1 Welterweight, #1 P4P, the best at the time. 3x the amount of fights, 3x the amount of wins and titles in four weight classes.

It's not close.

how was Salido the champion unranked casual you dont know anything about boxing he was top five not unranked try again

[ToMeKeMoT]

Carnelo knocking out Kov far surpasses anything Loma has done.

It's not close, bro.

Loma making Rigo who was P4P quit or even stopping Linares who was P4P while being injured is better than anything weightbully cheater Canelo could ever dream of doing casual

[Combat Talk Radio]

Really? Are you actually saying this? Pu pu pu pleaaaaazzze. You certainly sound strangely bitter about this list. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how you're coming across. You saw the "math." It was about getting a draw and majority decision with Gennady. Had he lost as he should have, he wouldn't even be on this list.

And, in the spirit of boxing, are you really having that fight mean something to you when Kovalev had a two month camp, was dehydrated because of that contract and had even professional boxers alleging that the fight look fixed? Come on now. You can't bring up that fight as having any true significance. It was like watching a WWE match, in reality.

This list is actually pretty good, with a good system of ranking the last three years. As far as who could be added, I can't think of anyone at the moment, taking into account the last three years of boxing.

Loma making Rigo who was P4P quit or even stopping Linares who was P4P while being injured is better than anything weightbully cheater Canelo could ever dream of doing casual

I get it.

This "IMHO" is basically the Outlaw Mudshow version of boxing. Same as what we see with wrestling (which also is no longer worth watching).

You young kids are using BIAS and PERSONAL FEELINGS - facts be damned.

That's why you got a bunch of absolute nobodies on there.

BIGPOPPAPUMP, I submit that this "article" significantly degrades the credibility of the site and should be removed. Or edited with heavy disclaimers. "The views stated in the article are the PERSONAL OPINIONS OF the author and not shared by Boxingscene.com".

[crold1]

Really? Are you actually saying this? Pu pu pu pleaaaaazzze. You certainly sound strangely bitter about this list. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how you're coming across. You saw the "math." It was about getting a draw and majority decision with Gennady. Had he lost as he should have, he wouldn't even be on this list.

And, in the spirit of boxing, are you really having that fight mean something to you when Kovalev had a two month camp, was dehydrated because of that contract and had even professional boxers alleging that the fight look fixed? Come on now. You can't bring up that fight as having any true significance. It was like watching a WWE match, in reality.

This list is actually pretty good, with a good system of ranking the last three years. As far as who could be added, I can't think of anyone at the moment, taking into account the last three years of boxing.

That’s pretty much it. It’s just the math. Win the first GGG and he’s probably #1. Even if the decision had gone against him, And all other results remain equal, his resume is so strong he’s probably still #2. I didn’t care how it came out but both guys figure prominently in the debate about who the best in the world is and I think this validates to some extent the reason for the broad consensus.

[Citizen Koba]

It's easier to beat contenders in a division that is weak.

Usyk went through all the top cruisers in a very stacked division. Canelo as well has had a tough run of opponents.

I just feel those guys deserve extra credit somehow for that. Not sure what the best way would be to mathematically account for it, though.

One of the main reasons I steer well clear of P4P is the sheer impossibility of coming up with any objective way of comparing the 'strength' of the different divisions.

[Cypocryphy]

I get it.

This "IMHO" is basically the Outlaw Mudshow version of boxing. Same as what we see with wrestling (which also is no longer worth watching).

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I see what you are saying, however.

You young kids are using BIAS and PERSONAL FEELINGS - facts be damned.

The author set out the criteria for why he chose these boxers, in explicit detail, and it had nothing to do with feelings. That should be obvious.

That's why you got a bunch of absolute nobodies on there.

"Nobodies" who did pretty darn well these last three years.

BIGPOPPAPUMP, I submit that this "article" significantly degrades the credibility of the site and should be removed. Or edited with heavy disclaimers. "The views stated in the article are the PERSONAL OPINIONS OF the author and not shared by Boxingscene.com".

How the heck does this article degrade the quality of the site? This is not some emotive list based on "personal feelings." If it were, I'm sure it would look significantly different. I don't have a problem with it, even though my own list would look different. It's a list that fully explains how the fighters were chosen, and it only looks back the last three years. I imagine that if it is such a concern that you are calling for it to be removed, you should probably look deep within yourself as to why you really want it not to be associated with this site. I suspect you might not find any facts there but some deep-seated feelings.

I think this list makes a great talking point, which is what it is supposed to do. It's a P4P list. (??) You could make your own, with your own criteria and post it. That would be cool.

That’s pretty much it. It’s just the math. Win the first GGG and he’s probably #1. Even if the decision had gone against him, And all other results remain equal, his resume is so strong he’s probably still #2. I didn’t care how it came out but both guys figure prominently in the debate about who the best in the world is and I think this validates to some extent the reason for the broad consensus.

Yeah. Maybe Canelo is still on that list. I didn't go back and calculate what would have happened if he had been adjudged the loser in the first fight or even the second fight with Gennady. Personally, I think Canelo is a great boxer. But I also think that if we look at the meta-facts, then there is a bit of a taint on three of his fights; a bit of a shadow, for various reasons, reasons for which everyone is aware. However, this P4P list only is assessing the records of everyone, calculating points or facts that really can't be argued because these are the facts that will be recorded indelibly in history.