Comments Thread For: Rethinking P4P: Trying to Measure Who Beat Who...and When

[Cypocryphy]

There's not nearly enough of a penalty or bonus for jumping weight classes.

By this metric, Fury pulling Rigondeaux up to HW would get 11 * (122/201) = 6.7 points, or would be a higher quality win than beating the #5 HW (6 points).

The weight class adjustment needs raised to some high power, or totally changed.

Really? Are you serious? When the hell is someone going to jump eleven weight divisions? Is that even possible? How is someone with the frame of Rigo going to climb up to heavy weight? It's impossible. Well, not impossible I suppose, but you'd see guys spending a year eating donuts just to make it, and then they'd be round like a ball.

This has to be a joke, right? Or are you trying to be contrary or something?

[crold1]

Really? Are you serious? When the hell is someone going to jump eleven weight divisions? Is that even possible? How is someone with the frame of Rigo going to climb up to heavy weight? It's impossible. Well, not impossible I suppose, but you'd see guys spending a year eating donuts just to make it, and then they'd be round like a ball.

This has to be a joke, right? Or are you trying to be contrary or something?

Yeah, I was approaching it the way the divisions were established in part as a percentage of body weight between jumps. I hadn't considered the possibility of Rigo vs. Fury.

[Citizen Koba]

Yeah, I was approaching it the way the divisions were established in part as a percentage of body weight between jumps. I hadn't considered the possibility of Rigo vs. Fury.

Now that's a pretty serious oversight there Cliff!

FWIW I like your numerical approach to these kindsa problems, they're never gonna be perfect but you just gotta take 'em for what they are. Anything that makes folk think about this stuff from a slightly different angle - maybe help 'em put aside some of their assumptions - always gonna be a good thing in my book.

[UNBANNED]

lmao

what a dunce

crawford doesnt have a single win as good as porter, mikey or brook

crawford is trying to fight everyone? lol

thats funny...because i specifically remember arum and crawford both saying they were looking at shawn porter before and after the mean machine fight...well about a week after the mean machine fight....because when kenny porter said "hey call us we make a fight" they both did a 180 and said "thats not on our radar".....and i have proof and quotes.....they liked to run their mouths about porter and the pbc guys when they dont think theyll mention crawford or respond or talk back....when porters dad talked back they got real quiet

take your "i hate haymon the pbc" sunglasses off....theyre for women anyway

You rate Mikey Garcia a "good win"?

We arent talking about the same thing XD

[buge]

Yeah, I was approaching it the way the divisions were established in part as a percentage of body weight between jumps. I hadn't considered the possibility of Rigo vs. Fury.

That was an example. Sure it was extreme, but it was specifically chosen to show that something is off in the calculations.

You can instead use other actual examples.

Kell Brook getting pulled up to MW to fight GGG, counts like as good of a win for GGG as when he beat Daniel Jacobs ... something's off

Roy Jones going up to HW and beating John Ruiz counts no better than RJJ staying in his division and beating someone like Montell Griffin again ... something's off

There should be an adjustment for changing divisions, but there needs to be more credit given for wins by the lower weighted fighter, especially when you are trying to make a p4p list.

[Dasmius Shinobi]

Overall, excellent list.

Not against the list of P4P, but also in not favor. We see list P4P like these everywhere and all of us always put a list of P4P here or in another forum.

[Cypocryphy]

Yeah, I was approaching it the way the divisions were established in part as a percentage of body weight between jumps. I hadn't considered the possibility of Rigo vs. Fury.

A little late in responding, but yeah. I suppose there can be weighted calculations. I mean, in your example, I do not believe it would have made a significant difference. Maybe?

What I was thinking, such as in regard to research, is to quantify the quality of the win or loss. What I mean is to give degrees of weight to KOs, TKOs, UDs, SDs, MDs, RTDs. Also, did the press, pundits and boxing experts view the win or loss as a robbery. What was the real story here. These elements might down grade or reduce the point value.

Also, what was the level of competition. Did so and so fight win a title from a three division champ with seven title defenses or was it just a newly crowned champ?

I won't go on, but this is an example of what I believe would be an extensive and highly accurate approach to establish a pound for pound list.

For example, Kosei Tanaka is not on the Ring P4P but probably should be. Some, however, have him ranked higher than Vasyl Lomachenko. There certainly is an argument there. But if you look at the quality of opponents each has faced, Lomachenko has the higher quality opponents and the better victories, that being KOs/TKOs/RTDs.

Anyway, I think you P4P is great because it raises issues with the P4P lists, such as Ring Magazine's, etc.

[Cypocryphy]

Now that's a pretty serious oversight there Cliff!

FWIW I like your numerical approach to these kindsa problems, they're never gonna be perfect but you just gotta take 'em for what they are. Anything that makes folk think about this stuff from a slightly different angle - maybe help 'em put aside some of their assumptions - always gonna be a good thing in my book.

Yes! Exactly. Well said.