Is my Grandpa right about Floyd not doing enough to be considered an ATG?

[therealpugilist]

This conversation came up last night when we were watching something on tv about mayweathers daughter stabbing another girl.

Grandpa said that mayweather was a decent fighter, but he didn't dare to be great like Pacquiao and in his eyes, didn't do enough to be considered an ATG. I asked how and he said he never challenged himself by moving up to 154 and 160. He said a lot of great fighters were at 154, especially 160 and he should have fought them at those weights with no catch-weights attached.

Is my grandpa right?

grandpa must be a casual fan when the best fighter of the era isnt an all time great but the guy he beat and the 2nd best is lol


they guy represented the US at 125 in the olympics, most of his carrer was at 140 and below and he barely weighed over 150 for fights at 152-154

floyd has 50 fights over half are title fights and vs other world champions

anybody questioning his resume at this point simply doesnt know **** about boxing or is butthurt he never lost

[therealpugilist]

Is your grandpa a crackhead?

if its not and its some herb tell Papi to pass the dutchie my friend

[BoxingTrav]

Look at Floyd s career why shouldn't he have been favoueite?
Full of past prime, with countless losses, or smaller than floyd and bloated up etc.
Look what happened with common opponents Pac beats them more devastatingly or more times.
Pac won when he was underdog so we learnt Pac was much better than people thought he was.
Just because Floyd has been favourite and w on it don't then mean people think he's on pac level, or duran, , srl, Ali level.But
Most think or many believe Floyd s overrated and never took risks, didn't fight outside country, didn't fight against people he's be underdog against. Don't say he's too good to be underdog again?
Fighting green nel o at cw .in your own backyard isn't considered taking a risk in boxing language
.

So Pac fought Hatton, Mosley and DelaHoya after Floyd. So were they past prime when Floyd fought them but then they were in their prime when Pac fought them?

Oscar DeLaHoya - Manny thoroughly dominated DeLaHoya in a shocking fashion and Floyd did not have an easy time . Pac did defeat Oscar is greater fashion.

Hatton - Floyd put on a masterclass boxing performance against an undefeated Hatton before stopping him in 10. Manny ran through him in 2 rounds ending with a spectacular knock out. You can go either way with which performance was greater. I suspect most would say Pac.

Mosley - Floyd put on a masterclass performance and dominated Shane who was coming off of annihilating Margarito. Manny came out sharp against Shane hurt him bad and one going away in lackluster even having a knockdown credited to Shane - Floyd performed better.

Floyd fought Cotto and Marquez after Manny fought them.

Cotto - When Manny fought Cotto he was coming off getting stopped by Margarito and a very rough battle with Clottey. Manny dominated Cotto after Cotto had a good start. Floyd won an exciting fight against Cotto - I would say Pac did better

Marquez - Manny fought life and death with Marquez for four fights before Marquez ended their rivalry with a devastating knock out of Manny. Floyd toyed with Marquez for 12 rounds. People tried to make it as if Marquez wasn't game. Well I challenge you all to go watch the sequence after Floyd knocked down Juan Manuel in the second round. he hit Floyd with several hard counters and that made Floyd back off. Floyd performed better.

So that is five common opponents. Most will say that Manny outperformed Floyd against Oscar, Miguel and Ricky. So that is a 3-2 advantage for Manny.

Actual record against Common Opponents:

Manny 6 (3Kos) - 1 (Ko'd by) -1 - 75% Winning PCT

Floyd 5 (1Ko) - 0 - 0 - 100% Winning Pct

Head to Head

Floyd 1 - 0 vs Manny
Manny 0 -1 vs Floyd

Now if Manny was greater, why was he the underdog in the fight when he was 2 years Floyd's Junior and Floyd was running from him?

As far as not taking risks by not fighting outside the country, please understand that boxing is a business. Floyd made tons of Money in boxing. Why would he fight out of this country? What would be the reason.

If the bottom line wasn't about Money, then ask yourself this question, why has Manny not returned to the Phillipines to fight since he beat Larios.

Lastly about Canelo - He was 23 year old when he fought a 36 year old Floyd. was a world champion and 43 fights under his belt. At 23 years old Floyd fought Emannuel Augustus. Floyd was 23-0 was a world champion and Augustus was 35 years old, one year younger than Floyd was when he fought Canelo. In addition a 23 year old Floyd fought Diego Corrales who was 33 - 0 with 27 knockouts. Floyd at that point was 24-0. Was Floyd green too? The fact remains that Canelo was bigger, stronger and younger than Floyd. That's a risk. Why did Manny not take that risk?

[BoxingTrav]

I didn't say Floyd never took risks, dummy. But it was rare and he usually had significant stipulations that took the danger out of the matchups.

You can't compare it to Pacquiao. Not only did Manny take a lot of big risks, daring to be great, it was more aking to bad advice from his team in some of those fights. The Margarito and last Marquez fight in particular were completely unnecessary and a big risk. Even Manny's most recent fight could have ended bad for him if we didn't know any better.

Floyd never took those kind of risks. Manny was too brave for his own good. The Margarito fight took a lot out of him and arguable ended his peak prime, and we all know how that 4th Marquez fight turned out. And even after that one Pac still badly wanted a 5th fight.

Keep in mind I'm very fair here, most boxing fans call Floyd a complete coward who never faced ANY risks. I acknowledge Floyd atleast, he did good rematching Castillo, Maidana and taking the Canelo fight. But Learn about boxing and who you're comparing. There's no comparison here.

Lol. Yes Manny took risks in fighting Margarito and Marquez. We would both agree that the risk was not as great once Mosley completely obliterated Margarito.

Yes it was a risk fighting Marquez a fourth time but he wouldn't have had to do that had he beaten him clearly in one of the previous 3 bouts (For the record I had Manny winning the first 2 matchups, the third was a draw in my opinion).

Floyd didn't have to do that with Marquez. One fight was all that we needed. As you acknowledged Floyd's two fights that were close were immediate rematches that he won decisively. No need for fight 3 and 4. Fighting an immediate rematch with someone that gave you problems is a risk.

And he did take risk against Thurman albeit after he was in huge trouble against Lopez. Wasn't he supposed to fight the Mikey Garcia- Spence winner? I mean he did get in the ring. Bigger risk, Thurman or Spence? You tell me.

Torrecampo - no rematch
Sangsurat - no rematch
Morales - Erik loses to Zahir Raheem then we have a rematch.
Bradley - Robbery but he still fought Tim twice more to prove a point
Marquez - Juan Manuel ended that rivalry
Mayweather - Clear loss, no need for a rematch
Horn - I thought he won but he got beat up and roughed up and opted against doing that again.

Now Im not here to criticize Pac instead Im here to point out how people overlook facts when iy comes to their favorites.


Manny is one of the greats and took many risks. They all take risks.

Now as far as comparison goes. You said learn about boxing because there is no comparison. Lol

Same era, around the same age, career defining fight. Floyd won. Floyd didnt lose to any common opponent, never lost to anyone, never been on his @$$, never been dominated, highest accuracy to defensive efficiency split, undefeated over a 19 year career. If you think Pac is better lol. Good for u

[Boxing Goat]

I disagree. Floyd has an amazing record. He beat everyone that he was supposed to during his career. He is not TBE like he says but he's definitely an ATG.

[QueensburyRules]

So Pac fought Hatton, Mosley and DelaHoya after Floyd. So were they past prime when Floyd fought them but then they were in their prime when Pac fought them?

Oscar DeLaHoya - Manny thoroughly dominated DeLaHoya in a shocking fashion and Floyd did not have an easy time . Pac did defeat Oscar is greater fashion.

Hatton - Floyd put on a masterclass boxing performance against an undefeated Hatton before stopping him in 10. Manny ran through him in 2 rounds ending with a spectacular knock out. You can go either way with which performance was greater. I suspect most would say Pac.

Mosley - Floyd put on a masterclass performance and dominated Shane who was coming off of annihilating Margarito. Manny came out sharp against Shane hurt him bad and one going away in lackluster even having a knockdown credited to Shane - Floyd performed better.

Floyd fought Cotto and Marquez after Manny fought them.

Cotto - When Manny fought Cotto he was coming off getting stopped by Margarito and a very rough battle with Clottey. Manny dominated Cotto after Cotto had a good start. Floyd won an exciting fight against Cotto - I would say Pac did better

Marquez - Manny fought life and death with Marquez for four fights before Marquez ended their rivalry with a devastating knock out of Manny. Floyd toyed with Marquez for 12 rounds. People tried to make it as if Marquez wasn't game. Well I challenge you all to go watch the sequence after Floyd knocked down Juan Manuel in the second round. he hit Floyd with several hard counters and that made Floyd back off. Floyd performed better.

So that is five common opponents. Most will say that Manny outperformed Floyd against Oscar, Miguel and Ricky. So that is a 3-2 advantage for Manny.

Actual record against Common Opponents:

Manny 6 (3Kos) - 1 (Ko'd by) -1 - 75% Winning PCT

Floyd 5 (1Ko) - 0 - 0 - 100% Winning Pct

Head to Head

Floyd 1 - 0 vs Manny
Manny 0 -1 vs Floyd

Now if Manny was greater, why was he the underdog in the fight when he was 2 years Floyd's Junior and Floyd was running from him?

As far as not taking risks by not fighting outside the country, please understand that boxing is a business. Floyd made tons of Money in boxing. Why would he fight out of this country? What would be the reason.

If the bottom line wasn't about Money, then ask yourself this question, why has Manny not returned to the Phillipines to fight since he beat Larios.

Lastly about Canelo - He was 23 year old when he fought a 36 year old Floyd. was a world champion and 43 fights under his belt. At 23 years old Floyd fought Emannuel Augustus. Floyd was 23-0 was a world champion and Augustus was 35 years old, one year younger than Floyd was when he fought Canelo. In addition a 23 year old Floyd fought Diego Corrales who was 33 - 0 with 27 knockouts. Floyd at that point was 24-0. Was Floyd green too? The fact remains that Canelo was bigger, stronger and younger than Floyd. That's a risk. Why did Manny not take that risk?

- -Why U lie? Manny 1 yr younger, not 2.

Why TUE 51-0 back out of the date and MGM venue he reserve for Manny fight to fight ring rusted BALCO Shane who almost KOed TUE in the 2nd round?

Manny made the March 13, 2010 date vs Clottey who TUE ducked.

Why TUE never fight BALCO Marquez like Manny did twice?


Why Manny run away with every Ring P4P record and not TUE who ain't even in the ballpark? Why foreign born Manny have the first and most PPVs over TUE?

Why U so demonstrably Dum?

[OldTerry]

who were all these great fighters at 154 and 160 he could have fought?

Since we are talking about "All Time Greats" then we need to speak about boxers from previous eras. I know Floyd didn't have the opportunity to fight those greats but let's consider them and imagine how he would have fared.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Tommy Hearns
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Wilfredo Bonitos
6. Parnell Whitaker

The above is my short list and speaks to the fighters of my generation. I don't believe Floyd would have beaten most of these guys (especially Tommy Hearns) but he would haved done well. So my opinion is Floyd is not the ATG but he is among the ATGS.