Thoughts on Sweet Pea vs GGG

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Bro how can anyone honestly say that McGirt has this great stellar resume...like who is his best win? He was a really good fighter, just as Jacobs and SD were...if you want to overrate past guys in order to slight current guys, that's cool man, do you...I just evaluate things objectively based on what I see...some people just have a red-line on here for GGG so they will strike down anything about him and not even look at anything with him objectively...it's just weird man.

If the claim to greatness for Sweet Pea, and sorry-ness for GGG, is Pernell's wins over McGirt and Nelson and that GGG's career can't compete with that...I mean lol...I mean wow we are scraping the bottom of the barrel man.

I made the thread because I was having a convo in another thread about Pernell and Loma...and when looking again at Pernell's career those 2 fights with Mexicans were very interesting, compared to what happened to GGG...history repeats itself I suppose.



So what are Sweet Pea's best official wins? Or in what way would you prop Pernell way above GGG? Likely it has to do with what color they were, if I could really read your mind



...re Sanchez and Nelson...Jacobs went toe to toe with Canelo in a good fight...you see what I'm saying...yes Gomez was a very good win for sure...but now we are hyping up Jeff Fenech man...come on man.

Sweet Pea successful in 4 divisions...GGG gift against Jacobs and 2 draws against Canelo and he LOST to Dervenchenko

Yeah those careers arent remotely similar

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Tbh I'm not really sure how anyone objective could read what I wrote, and then compare the careers of Whitaker and GGG if they needed a reference...and come away saying anything other than 'yeah they were pretty similar.'

Or, if they really disagreed...seems like it would be pretty easy to say 'well I disagree for x y and z reasons.'

Instead you guys sound like you start crying and are offended someone pointed out something rather obvious lol...for some on here, anything to disparage GGG, I suppose...hope you gents have a great day however.

Nobody gave you a serious response because you're an idiot. Not worth the time it takes to point out why you're an idiot

[Boxing_1013]

Sweet Pea successful in 4 divisions...GGG gift against Jacobs and 2 draws against Canelo and he LOST to Dervenchenko

Yeah those careers arent remotely similar

I mentioned Sweet Pea moving up as being a feather in his cap...to be fair to GGG, he turned pro at a later age, and was more like a 147-160 in his adult boxing career body-wise, vs PW's 130-147...similar to how Loma turning pro so late, he won't be traversing the weight classes like Manny/Floyd or PW did, not with that much success...just isn't big enough imho.

Man lol those types of scores in GGG's fights just kind of sum up my inability to take a lot of his detractors on here seriously...I don't see how anyone could get to 7 rounds for Danny, or 6 for Canelo in either fight...SD by far gave him his best fight.

But some people saying he lost that too is like the boy who cried wolf - y'all tried to say he lost every other time he went 12 rounds lol, so it kind of takes away the (valid) argument there that he lost vs SD.

Watching it live I felt SD was the better man but was a bit unlucky to only get to 6 rounds on my card...on replay I felt GGG was a bit more competitive than I thought and had it 7-5 GGG...no issue with someone giving SD 7 rounds though...with the obvious caveat that preferably that person should be scoring the fight with logic and not emotion...but hey who cares lol, if you really scored those fights and found them for those guys, that's cool.

I can't really see any of them but SD being really in the fight, but to each his own...some people still swear Hagler beat SRL for God's sake lol so there are worse opinions.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Yet again you show yourself to be the emotional one...not me man...Sal died when he was 23...what he accomplished before then was great...Canelo is a great Mexican fighter as well...most would put both of them top 5 all-time right now for Mexicans...if you want to insist Sanchez at 23 demonstrated he was so superior what Canelo has done in about double the amount of time/real fights, ok cool? lol.

I think him JCC Sr and Canelo are top 3 for me, with Barrera and Marquez rounding it out...if I am forgetting someone obvious there, it is possible but no one comes to mind.

I'm in my 30s...over the past decade or so I've followed boxing rather closely...this includes watching a lot of film of past greats and of course the current ones...so yes I've seen quite a bit of those guys...and I've always been partial to lefties who can box, so of course took a strong liking to Sweet Pea.

He reminds me in a lot of ways of a (slightly) better version of Lara...both could dazzle you with skills, clean countering, and not getting hit...but at times each man had periods of inactivity which gave their opponents more of a chance than they really deserved.

Again you come off as a (probably slightly older) poster who wants to overrate (imho) past fighters because they were 'your era' so you rate them very highly as they hold a special place in your heart...but the truth is, when you really study it, there isn't much of a difference between some of the guys that you are indicating are world's apart.

And when your (rather poor - no offense) argument about WHY those guys were so much better was countered, you reacted like a spoiled child who had his ball taken away lol.

I would add here as well, that athletes (and fighters) absolutely tend to improve over time and get bigger/faster/stronger.
Isn't to say that no past greats could compete today...or that very good fighters from the 80s and 90s would be outclassed by similar guys today.

But in general, yes, a very good fighter today will be better than a very good fighter from a different era...comparing resumes and accomplishments in eras is a different matter though...and a fair one in comparing eras.

Tbh with you I don't really consider myself a fan of any fighters really, not anymore anyway...I just enjoy watching the sport and seeing who the better man is on the night...I am quick to give props to fighters from all backgrounds and feel I evaluate all fighters objectively, without regard to color/country of origin, or personal preference (whether I 'like' the guy or his style in the ring, or out).

95-98% of people on here just evaluate fights/fighters from their rose-colored glasses...I honestly don't think I'm one of them...and how could you call me a fanboy of GGG, but say you are 10x the fan of his lol?

I just call it like I see it with him...he's had a great career and should get more props on here imho but that isn't always the case, who cares lol.

I don't sit here and say he dominated Ouma before KOing him or in the SD fight...he had a very tight fight with Ouma before the KO and I had it 6-6 vs SD but felt SD was a bit unlucky in the first 2 rounds to be down 3 points, and it was a hard hole to climb out of...and he still could have, as I would have no issue with someone scoring it for him 7-5 there.

Point being there that if I really had some agenda with GGG...I would say he was beating Ouma easily before the KO, and I would certainly never out of the blue advertise my feelings that it was a tight fight...I would say that he beat SD handily and it wasn't that close.

But I just call it like I see it, so I say what I see...and neither of those guys are ATGs...so them giving GGG a good fight..well people can get on GGG for having tight fights vs guys of that level, can't they? And they are perfectly fine to do so...of course most greats have similar type moments, and most actually lose to those types of guys, so it isn't a big deal...but even pointing that out may send some on here into hysteria...'well that guy that beat "insert great fighter here" was way better than that guy that beat "insert name of fighter you don't like" lol.



But you posted on the first page about how you felt the comparison was appropriate though? I made the comparison on two fronts...1) they both dominated, in different ways, vs good competition...you disagreed, and tried to explain why...I feel you made a weak case and I emotionless-ly called that out...you got upset...sorry man? lol

And then you agreed on my 2nd point about the two fights each guy had vs Mexican greats in their career...it was just funny to me that both guys had an official draw and loss in their two fights with Mexican greats, and many would say they should have had 2 Ws...as you basically agreed to as well.

If you want to be emotional about everything, that's cool...but I don't think you look like a boxing genius by saying stuff like swearing up and down that Jeff Fenech is a great win and indicative of someone being a great fighter.

As noted before...you are probably a bit older guy, who watched those guys growing up, and you have a special place in your heart for them so you view that era and and critique or comparison of it rather emotionally.

Which is fine...it happens...but yeah I think as many on here do, you are overrating past fighters in order to prop them up, for whatever reason...I just call it like I see it my friend.

And as someone who agreed with me (and most others) that GGG and Sweet Pea should have fared better in those 2 fights vs Mexican greats...your insistence that Sweet Pea is better than GGG due to wins over McGirt and Nelson...I mean sorry man, I think you are once again another on here who fails to realize that what makes 99% of great fighters great - is beating 9/10 or even 10/10 of the good solid pros they faced...most greats only face 1-2 or maybe 3 other greats in their primes/best weights, and usually they have mixed results there.

Trying to rate PW way over GGG based on two wins over McGirt and one over Nelson...yeah idk man you would seem to have the agenda there and not me...oh well, to each their own my friend.

I ain’t reading your agenda driven essay...

Keep comparing David Lemieux and Martin Murray to Azumah Nelson.😂😂

🤡...

[Boxing_1013]

Nobody gave you a serious response because you're an idiot. Not worth the time it takes to point out why you're an idiot

You actually just gave a decent rebuttal in the above post, so thanks.

So no need to go with personal attacks, rather than just saying 'PW was better because x y z'...I would think that would be easier man, if it was so obvious...as I've said before, the truth is that most past greats made their names by winning nearly every fight vs the good pros they faced...I've studied basically every great fighter and their career, I have been really invested in it at times.

PW and GGG are very similar in that regard - dominating against quality opposition, and it is really commendable...and then also in the fact that they had those 2 disputed draws and losses to great Mexican A-sides was just interesting to me when I looked at them side by side for a second.

The main point of the thread btw was the rehash those 2 fights each guy had lol...I wasn't really even directly comparing the two overall...but yeah, when you do, they actually stack up pretty similarly.

To say otherwise...you have to say stuff like Buddy McGirt is this 95/100 fighter and Danny Jacobs is a 70/100...just doesn't add up to my analysis...and I've studied all of these eras in some ways over the past 10 years.

Imho people tend to overrate past fighters, both in terms of ability and accomplishment...like saying that GGG and PW beat similar competition, to any reasonable person, shouldn't be some earth-shattering thing...and the facts back that up...again to prop up PW, we now have to start propping up guys like Jeff Fenech man.

I swear some on here just don't even want to listen to anything other than what they want to be true lol...no offense to ya man, you seem like a decent dude...but yeah I don't really get some pushback on here on certain topics...it's odd.

[joseph5620]

Yeah I thought the similarities there between how they fared in those 2 fights was pretty interesting.



Yeah man I just think saying that McGirt (twice) and Nelson being far better than the likes of Jacobs and then even SD/Murray and Lemieux...I mean I just don't really see that my friend.

They were all about the same level for me...which is to say not top of the elite but somewhere below that - I mean who did Buddy or Nelson even beat to be considered far above those guys...just imho there is a bit of nostalgia at times when looking back at past fighters and kind of propping them up a bit, relative to their accomplishments.

Comparing Golovkin and his resume to Whitaker is supremely ridiculous on it's own. But you took it to another level here. Nelson is an ATG hall of famer. Mcgirt is a two division champion. On what planet are they not far superior fighters over Jacobs, Lemieux and Murray? You should stop with this nonsense.. Nobody that truly knows boxing is buying this crap.

[Boxing_1013]

I ain’t reading your agenda driven essay...

Keep comparing David Lemieux and Martin Murray to Azumah Nelson.😂😂

🤡...

I will take your admission of defeat, thank you sir...probably would take you longer to read than it would for me to write btw ...but when you are just talking off the top of your head with no agenda that's how it goes.

Not saying you have one, or had one...but yeah seems pretty clearly you boxed yourself into a corner here so you have nowhere to go, so I understand you bowing out.

Btw...nice spin attempt...I said Jacobs and SD were the best two of that 4some...meaning they are a level or so above Murray at the time of that fight, and probably 1.5 levels above Lemieux.

But yeah if you really want to insist that Nelson was this 99/100 fighter and Jacobs and SD are 70/100...go ahead man..as mentioned you seem to have a soft spot for past eras, likely due to your age.

You seem like a decent guy as well..but you kind of lose some credibility when you can't just state your case without getting kind of upset and then try and name call...makes you look kind of biased and small really.

In any event, thanks for the replies...I know you usually have a pretty good feel for things on here.

[Boxing_1013]

I will take your admission of defeat, thank you sir...probably would take you longer to read than it would for me to write btw ...but when you are just talking off the top of your head with no agenda that's how it goes.

Not saying you have one, or had one...but yeah seems pretty clearly you boxed yourself into a corner here so you have nowhere to go, so I understand you bowing out.

Btw...nice spin attempt...I said Jacobs and SD were the best two of that 4some...meaning they are a level or so above Murray at the time of that fight, and probably 1.5 levels above Lemieux.

But yeah if you really want to insist that Nelson was this 99/100 fighter and Jacobs and SD are 70/100...go ahead man..as mentioned you seem to have a soft spot for past eras, likely due to your age.

You seem like a decent guy as well..but you kind of lose some credibility when you can't just state your case without getting kind of upset and then try and name call...makes you look kind of biased and small really.

In any event, thanks for the replies...I know you usually have a pretty good feel for things on here.

Comparing Golovkin and his resume to Whitaker is supremely ridiculous on it's own. But you took it to another level here. Nelson is an ATG hall of famer. Mcgirt is a two division champion. On what planet are they not far superior fighters over Lemieux and Murray? You should stop with this nonsense.. Nobody that truly knows boxing is buying this crap.

Hey Joe, good to see ya again...seems like whenever we have a debate, you pop in...then kind of disappear lol.

But as stated above, kind of a spin attempt there to say I was putting Murray and Lemieux there really...they would be good solid wins, but obviously SD and Jacobs would be above them, and would be the two I more put on par with Nelson and Buddy.

And yeah who did Nelson really beat though...and Jacobs will very likely be a two division champion man...and just being or beating a 2 division is not really indicative of being a great fighter anyway man...come on...that's not like the end all-be all designation lol...a lot of guys can claim that, we have like 10 belts.

As mentioned...I've studied boxing and boxing history really for quite a bit...and it is really odd to have some people on here really swear up and down that some fighters were great, and some suck lol...just odd to me man.

If the case for PW's resume being above GGG's, the fact that PW has 2 UD wins over McGirt, and a UD win over Nelson...and GGG having a UD win over Jacobs and SD, and then KOs of guys like Brook, Lemieux, and Murray.

Yeah man I just don't really see the over-rating of PW's resume when I look at it compared to GGG's...I don't see how anyone objectively can unless one is really looking to do so regardless of what the data may show.

In any event thanks for the reply...but yeah I just don't really see the uproar...and it is a bit eye-roll inducing now that people are really big upping guys like Fenech, McGirt and even Nelson, and saying that guys like Jacobs, SD and even Murray and Lemieux suck lol...just odd to me, but to each his own.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

I will take your admission of defeat, thank you sir...probably would take you longer to read than it would for me to write btw ...but when you are just talking off the top of your head with no agenda that's how it goes.

Not saying you have one, or had one...but yeah seems pretty clearly you boxed yourself into a corner here so you have nowhere to go, so I understand you bowing out.

Btw...nice spin attempt...I said Jacobs and SD were the best two of that 4some...meaning they are a level or so above Murray at the time of that fight, and probably 1.5 levels above Lemieux.

But yeah if you really want to insist that Nelson was this 99/100 fighter and Jacobs and SD are 70/100...go ahead man..as mentioned you seem to have a soft spot for past eras, likely due to your age.

You seem like a decent guy as well..but you kind of lose some credibility when you can't just state your case without getting kind of upset and then try and name call...makes you look kind of biased and small really.

In any event, thanks for the replies...I know you usually have a pretty good feel for things on here.

Again fella, I ain’t wasting anymore time with your childish, delusional and bias nonsense.

If you wanna keep comparing Jacobs, Lemieux then be my guest.😂

The majority of people in this thread disagree with you as would any knowledgeable boxing fan.

There’s a very famous Mark Twain quote that sums up this debate...

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Nobody gave you a serious response because you're an idiot. Not worth the time it takes to point out why you're an idiot

This...😂😂😂😂