Why do people say Canelo and Floyd were taking risks

[djtmal]

We are in the network exclusive deal era my friend. Floyd, Canelo, ODH, Manny, GGG, Tyson, Cotto, etc don't get paid to fight they get paid to win and perform. The networks aren't concerned with quality of opponent as much as they are ratings/ppv sales/views.

Hell Floyd and Canelo, if you think about it, are more like a Vegas show then pro fighters. They fight 2x a year and they are responsible for making Las Vegas the 2 biggest paydays of the year. Vegas wants those 2 paydays every year.

I understand your point but this isn't 1980 when NBC, ABC and CBS had to bid on fights so they paid more for the best fights. There is also plenty of money to be made outside of the US. SO if you have an AJ, you can monetize him against bums just like you can against the best guys.

I don't think the fighters are to blame. IMO, if Canelo and Floyd were in the 1980's era and got paid more to fight better guys, they'd fight better guys all the time.

Don't listen to this bogus, tap dancing, wannabe network exec, and don't try to lump all those other guys in with what Floyd was doing.

Floyd was literally waiting to fight the best guys after they have been raked through the coals, and never fought guys who were a style mismatch. Floyd was just good at hyping up the fight and the opponent regardless of how much of a paper champ he was. He was even better at staying away from guys who presented too much of a risk style wise. Oscar moved up to ww from lightweight same as Floyd did, and was fighting guys like Quartey and Tito in their prime. Oba Carr, prime Shane Mosley. A slightly past prime Pernell Whitaker who never as much as took two flush shots back to back. We don't know how good we had it when Oscar was fighting.

Bernard Hopkins was a total style mismatch and Oscar moved up to 160 and fought him, and if that wasn't enough, Oscar exited boxing fighting a prime Manny Pac. Floyd wouldn't even entertain GGG's willingness to come down to 154 for a fight, and the Floyd Boys were crying that he was too small, despite being a beltholder @ 154. Sitting there talking mad smack that GGG was straight up and down with no special effects. Yeah right. Then he exited boxing fighting a totally washed bum in Andre Berto.

The risk/reward factor was pretty balanced with Oscar, what happened with Floyd. Floyd has been low to no risk since he fought Marquez.

People still pay to see the best to fight the best don't let the excuses fool you.

[Boxing_1013]

Me thinking?

Sorry what was I thinking

[Boxing_1013]

Found this great Mannix article on the early days with Floyd and TR and Bruce Trampler matchmaking...

https://www.si.com/boxing/2015/04/27/top-rank-1996-olympics-floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-bruce-trampler

Gives a wholy different picture of Floyd from the Money May persona we came to know in his later career, but then I suspect that may be just a kinda part of life... as young men we're driven foremost by our egos and vanity and things like fame and glory are at the front of our minds... then we start to get older, start to figure out how the world works, we maybe take on a little cynicism. And for a boxer, later still, maybe in your 30s with the end of your career closing in you're gonna be thinking about securing the futurespecially if you ain't one of the blessed few like Floyd, Oscar or Canelo, who's already made enough for 5 lifetimes.

I mean, the risk reward equation probably looks quite different to someone who already has generational wealth to someone whose career could well stall into oblivion on low paid undercards with an L.

Good find and post Koba!

[Citizen Koba]

We are in the network exclusive deal era my friend. Floyd, Canelo, ODH, Manny, GGG, Tyson, Cotto, etc don't get paid to fight they get paid to win and perform. The networks aren't concerned with quality of opponent as much as they are ratings/ppv sales/views.

Hell Floyd and Canelo, if you think about it, are more like a Vegas show then pro fighters. They fight 2x a year and they are responsible for making Las Vegas the 2 biggest paydays of the year. Vegas wants those 2 paydays every year.

I understand your point but this isn't 1980 when NBC, ABC and CBS had to bid on fights so they paid more for the best fights. There is also plenty of money to be made outside of the US. SO if you have an AJ, you can monetize him against bums just like you can against the best guys.

I don't think the fighters are to blame. IMO, if Canelo and Floyd were in the 1980's era and got paid more to fight better guys, they'd fight better guys all the time.

Gotta spread some around before I hit you up again man. Solid post. I've
been coming round to the conclusion that the whole Vegas Superstar model of boxing is actually one of the biggest problems it's facing. It's great for Vegas - they don't like taking chances with their money and just want to make sure the millions roll in on schedule, great for the latest annointed, and the lucky few who get chosen as opponents but for the sport as a whole the Vegas Show is basically a fkn huge distortion.. throws everything else out of wack. Dudes ain't gonna fight each other or anyone risky when an L is gonna put em out of the running for a payday, titles, defenses, all of it stops matter ing when an elite few can pick the fights they want when they want irrespective of oversight or sanction.. IDK it is what it is, and maybe it was always that way to a degree, but for me personally I start to lose interest when it becomes just about the show, the superstars whether that's the Floyd show, the Canelo show or even, yes, the Big Drama Show. I find the drama in watching the younger guys with it all in front of em and the knowledge that it's all on the line every time than established dudes who already made their millions picking the fights that suit em, even when those are solid fights. Meh, maybe that's just me though.

[Madison Boxing]

I didn't see many risks by either of them. Canelo can't even lose anymore if it goes the distance he just has to avoid getting kod.

[NearHypnos]

Thanks for the reply...and except for the part I bolded at the end of your reply...I think we are pretty much saying the same things.

That they are smart for doing what they are doing...and they have more or less earned it or deserve it...but also what does 'earn' or 'deserve' even mean anyway...but they are in the A-side position and playing that role well.

Just don't try and really sell it as taking risks...because it isn't...often times taking risks and making the most money don't really line up, as we both pointed out.

And I don't really dislike either Floyd or Canelo...they are great fighters and prove it every time out...but seeing the 'he is taking so much risk' stuff all the time is just nauseating man.

I am just honestly surprised that on a real boxing forum people really try and sell it as those guys taking big risks in fights...that is not to say they take no risk, or that they have never taken a big risk in a fight.

But 9/10 of their fights, certainly for Canelo and definitely for Floyd in his Money May days...were basically like 90% in their favor, after you factor in opponent selection, venue, weight etc.

Could say the same thing about AJ with his fights if you want to..same applies to him really.

The problem is that you say you admit theyre great but you dont realize that in Floyd’s case, he was favored 100% of the time against anyone at WW. Canelo fought someone he wasnt favoured against twice in GGG and then fought the number 3 guy in his division. Point is they’re *always* favoured unless they go almost irrationally out of the way to not be by going completely out of their divisions. There isn’t a fighter at 154 who was favored against Canelo pre GGG. Post GGG and Jacobs at 160 he’s RIGHTFULLY a heavy favorite against every fighter. You never become the top earner in boxing by accident. That same criticism you have for them is evidence enough of how much more you expect out of them than the others.

You’re going about it looking at the wrong way. Every fight is a risk for the king of the hill. They are the ones risking everything. They are the ones bringing the people, the money, their name. They’re the ones who have all pressure every single time they go under the lights.

They earned it by merit. If the others could, they would. But they cant and have not and thats is why the select few who talk the talk and walk the walk call the shots. You dont ask for it in boxing, you take it and earn it if you want to be the man

[hugh grant]

Ha ha, floyd has never been known to take risks. One or two calculated risks over course of career maybe but on the whole no. Mr cautious more like it

[Larry the boss]

yep, they both should have just fought a bunch of mandatory defenses and then they would be great right?

[Chuckguy]

They fight all of their fights in their (adopted) hometown of Vegas...they are mega A-sides, who will know which fighters they can at least go 12 rounds with and not get KOed, and can control other terms such as weight/rehydration clauses if needed.

They know that all they have to do is go 12 rounds in Vegas with anyone, and they will get the win, or at worst a draw, if it is at all close.

I know some will take that as me hating on them, but I'm really not...they are both great fighters and 2 of the best of the last couple decades in my opinion.

But neither really took a tremendous amount of risky fights...and as the mega A-side, you don't really need to, and quite frankly, shouldn't...as doing so is kind of ****** money-wise.

But taking risks...would be Floyd fighting Pac in the Phillipines or Canelo fighting UK guys in the UK or GGG in Kazakstan...obviously they don't need to do that, and the money is better in Vegas...no one is arguing that.

But it is just as obvious that what they did/are doing for most of their careers would not be defined as taking risks.

Taking on your opponent in his backyard or neutral, especially if it is 'the' opponent that everyone wants to see at that time, is taking a risk...Fury vs Wlad, Fury vs Wilder...Usyk vs everyone...Ali vs Frazier...Ali vs Foreman.

Sell the Canelo-BJS fight as Canelo fighting yet another good or great fighter in his career...but also let's be real that once again he will have almost every advantage in his favor, all he has to do is go 12 and be a little competitive and he will win, and that even the opponent isn't necessarily in fine form/past due/will be hindered with weight issues etc.

I know this post will get some agitated but that's not the point...it's just tiresome seeing people on a real boxing forum trying to say those types of fights are risk-taking when what they are is risk-limiting and money-gathering.

In boxing all it takes is one punch. Look at how Mosley landed on floyd or how cottos brother did canelo when he was green you just never know man. Every fight there is some risk and yes they have all the cards piled on their side but you never know how that one punch can affect you.

[Boxing_1013]

The problem is that you say you admit theyre great but you dont realize that in Floyd’s case, he was favored 100% of the time against anyone at WW. Canelo fought someone he wasnt favoured against twice in GGG and then fought the number 3 guy in his division. Point is they’re *always* favoured unless they go almost irrationally out of the way to not be by going completely out of their divisions. There isn’t a fighter at 154 who was favored against Canelo pre GGG. Post GGG and Jacobs at 160 he’s RIGHTFULLY a heavy favorite against every fighter. You never become the top earner in boxing by accident. That same criticism you have for them is evidence enough of how much more you expect out of them than the others.

You’re going about it looking at the wrong way. Every fight is a risk for the king of the hill. They are the ones risking everything. They are the ones bringing the people, the money, their name. They’re the ones who have all pressure every single time they go under the lights.

They earned it by merit. If the others could, they would. But they cant and have not and thats is why the select few who talk the talk and walk the walk call the shots. You dont ask for it in boxing, you take it and earn it if you want to be the man

A lot of being the Mega A-side though doesn't have to do with being the best fighter...it is just a combination of marketing, luck, promotional skills etc.

Yes they both were/are great fighters as well...but again, when you have all those advantages in your favor, it's not really risk-taking, it is risk limiting...best name possible with the lowest risk..and the kicker for Floyd and Canelo is they will get every fight that goes 12 in their favor, or at worst a draw, in Vegas.

Taking risks would be fighting those guys in a neutral environment on even terms...but of course they won't do that because it would be dumb...but it doesn't mean that they are taking big risks now either.