How good was prime Mike Tyson?

[MiDKnighT]

Great when he was like 18, peaked really fast, drugs n fast living ****ed him up good. Probably would be considered a top 5 heavyweight if he stayed clean n healthy.

There are always so many what if's with Tyson. We could apply this to other boxers as well...

What if Rid**** Bowe was disciplined and laid off the cheeseburgers?

What if Buster Douglas stayed as disciplined as he was for the Tyson fight (and laid off the cheeseburgers...)?

What if Sonny Liston took Ali/Clay seriously and trained hard for him? (Or what if Liston didn't take a dive if you believe that)

What if George Foreman got a rematch with Ali?

We have to judge fighters on what what they did. Not what they could have done.

[The D3vil]

You don't seem to understand the well known concept of "styles make fights". For a great example look at Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier. They go to war and nearly kill each other 3 times then George Foreman walks in and absolutely destroys Frazier. Does that make him better than Ali? No...as we found out. Because Ali had a style that troubled Foreman in a way that Frazier's could not.

I do think Tyson's style was better against Holmes than a Holyfield or even a Foreman (although they never fought).

In my opinion....

Tyson beats (old) Holmes 8 times out of 10.
Holyfield beats (old) Holmes 7 times out of 10.
Holmes beats Foreman 6 times out of 10.
Holyfield beats Tyson 8 times out of 10.
Foreman beats Tyson 9.5 times out of 10.

Boxing is weird like that. Styles make fights.

Your idea that if boxer A beats boxer B and boxer C beats boxer A then that means boxer C can beat boxer B and everybody else that boxer A beat is just not true and has never been true.

Ali had trouble with fighters like Frazier and Norton that Foreman hulk smashed. Then Ali is the only person to ever KO Foreman. Once again, styles make fights.

I hate to break it to you but Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, and George Foreman all had styles that could beat any version of Tyson.

Personally I want to see Tyson vs Liston or Tyson vs Frazier. Now that would be a hell of a fight.

I agree that styles make fights, but sometimes the triangular theory is all that we have when you're dealing with people who span eras. It's not perfect, but it gives you some idea.

All that other stuff is your opinion, which is no better than the triangular theory because we have no way to prove that Foreman, Lewis, & Holyfield would beat any version of Tyson.

It's all hypothetical.

[Zelda]

A prime Mike Tyson was a great boxer. Would he have given trouble to all great boxers past or present? yes. Would he have beaten all of them in his prime? No. Prime Tyson fought in an era where the legends of the 70s were old and those of the 90s yet to cement themselves.

Also, Tyson was shown to be beatable if you had the confidence to stand up to him. Even no names who could 1. move, and 2. fought back aggressively, like James Tillis or Mitch Green or James Smith or Tony Tucker lasted the entire fight and lost on points only. If they were skillful, they could have won too. Ruddock gave him a tough time and Buster Douglas KO'ed Mike in his prime.

So, I keep my verdict...great but not the greatest. Could have beaten anyone on his day but lost, on average, to other greats like Ali or Foreman or Holyfield or Lewis.

[QueensburyRules]

Also, Tyson was shown to be beatable if you had the confidence to stand up to him. Even no names who could 1. move, and 2. fought back aggressively, like James Tillis or Mitch Green or James Smith or Tony Tucker lasted the entire fight and lost on points only. If they were skillful, they could have won too. Ruddock gave him a tough time and Buster Douglas KO'ed Mike in his prime..

- -U call fighting with a clown level corner while prescribed strong strong experimental sedatives Xanax and Zoloft his prime?

What grade U in?

[Quiksilva]

I stand by this belief that if anyone fought a 20-year old Mike Tyson in his prime, it would be unmatched.

He had everything, intimidation, feared, speed, power, reflexes, defense (bobbing and weaving), knockout power on both hands.

Natural fighter with enormous talent.

[Marchegiano]

Yeah, i reckon a prime Mike is a threat to anyone.

[Blond Beast]

In my book about Tyson's fights, I refer to what I call “perhaps the most beautiful twelve seconds of Mike Tyson’s boxing career.” They're in his 1986 fight against Reggie Gross. Tyson slips about a dozen or so punches from Gross, pivots, then pops a hook that floors Gross. I wrote a little more about it here.

Considering a fighter's "prime," I think about the word itself. Every fighter has their "prime," even if they were just mediocre, or they squandered that prime, or got outclassed or whatever. It's hard to look back and judge what someone's best year/s were. Arguably, Tyson's best fighting was done when he was training the hardest. Unfortunately, that period was ending just as he was facing his stronger challengers. This makes it so difficult to judge, and leaves me at least always considering "what-coulda-beens".

Good post. Tyson lost to Lewis and Holyfield, both older than him. He showed heart but neither fight was close in the end. This is prize fighting. The big money was there when those fights happened.

[Blond Beast]

I agree ali would have dominated and stopped tyson . He would have to be on his toes for the first few rounds but once he settles in that would be a one sided fight. If mike had a tough psyche the sky could have been the limit , he just didn't. People talk about him not training and expecting his opponents to lie down but the real issue is that he didnt want it when the going got tough . He was a mental midget if he faced adversity and he proved it time and time again .

U nailed it. I was brought up that neither Tyson or even Ali was as great in ring that most fringe fans claim. I saw the Norton fights. I know Ali liked to shoe shine the last minute of each round. With my own eyes, Ali impressed me more than Tyson and I’ve seen all their available fights. Tyson’s head movement, jab, four punch combos are a myth compared to Ali’s skills. Tyson threw mostly one-twos and didn’t fight on the clinch instead looked to the ref to separate. He was a clean fighter even. His best combo was a right to the body then a right uppercut. He hit Evander with this combo but Evander took it. I agree that Ali would get past the first few rounds against Tyson and then start to gas pedal him. Ali had one of the best chins too.

[Armchairhero]

Wilder is doing what Mike was but is getting nothing but hate.

No...mike was a complete fighter with beautiful movement and brutal force.
Wilder looses every round he doesn’t knock you out,he’s an awful fighter with a huge punch and a talent for landing it.

[NORMNEALON]

U nailed it. I was brought up that neither Tyson or even Ali was as great in ring that most fringe fans claim. I saw the Norton fights. I know Ali liked to shoe shine the last minute of each round. With my own eyes, Ali impressed me more than Tyson and I’ve seen all their available fights. Tyson’s head movement, jab, four punch combos are a myth compared to Ali’s skills. Tyson threw mostly one-twos and didn’t fight on the clinch instead looked to the ref to separate. He was a clean fighter even. His best combo was a right to the body then a right uppercut. He hit Evander with this combo but Evander took it. I agree that Ali would get past the first few rounds against Tyson and then start to gas pedal him. Ali had one of the best chins too.

Agreed . And that combo tyson threw was special . What a great combo right to the body and uppercut if I wasnt so tall for my weight I would have utilized that combo often . Not many people are prepared for punch selection like that.