Why do we recognize any champion who isn’t lineal?

[techliam]

154 is a weight limit.

160 is a weight limit.

155-160 is middleweight.

Cotto was allowed to weigh whatever he wanted. And he was middleweight champion.

Just to correct you on this

0-160 is middleweight

Divisions only have maximum limits, not minimum ones.

[techliam]

Fury is the man to beat. He's the lineal champ, a lineage that began with Sullivan. The cope is real.

Fury’s lineage (which only some recognise, showing how there’s more than 1 ‘lineal’ championship) either began with Wlad/Povetkin or Wlad/Chagaev, depending on the organisation. Certainly not Sullivan

[Curtis Harper]

Just to correct you on this

0-160 is middleweight

Divisions only have maximum limits, not minimum ones.

Would the sport sanction a fight between a minimum weight guy and a mw if mini guy came in at mini weight ???

that has the potential to have a 70 lb difference.

[techliam]

Would the sport sanction a fight between a minimum weight guy and a mw if mini guy came in at mini weight ???

that has the potential to have a 70 lb difference.

Yes

If they were both ranked middleweights, and they agree to the weight, there’s no rule to say they can’t fight in a sanctioned middleweight fight at 105

Your hypothetical example is extreme and unlikely. But consider two pretty recent cases where fights were sanctioned for titles at a higher weight than agreed:

Leonard-Lalonde. The fight was agreed at 168lb but was valid for the 175lb title

Mayweather-Maidana 2 - the fight was agreed at 147lb, but was valid for a 154lb title

[Curtis Harper]

Yes

If they were both ranked middleweights, and they agree to the weight, there’s no rule to say they can’t fight in a sanctioned middleweight fight at 105

Your hypothetical example is extreme and unlikely. But consider two pretty recent cases where fights were sanctioned for titles at a higher weight than agreed:

Leonard-Lalonde. The fight was agreed at 168lb but was valid for the 175lb title

Mayweather-Maidana 2 - the fight was agreed at 147lb, but was valid for a 154lb title

0-160 is wide reaching.

[Citizen Koba]

It has been confirmed to me with this thread that the argument against lineal champions is being a fan of someone else in the division who has an ABC belt.

Because ABC belts give people a reason to not recognize the fighter they don’t like as the champion.

Don’t like Adonis Stevenson? No problem! He’s not the real champion!

Don’t like Canelo? No problem! He’s not the real champion!

It doesn’t matter that they are because you have some bull***** belt to back up your fan boy *****. Enjoy it I guess lol.

Oh, man, the hilarity involved in anyone mistaking AFT for a Golovkin fan...

Can't say I like the dude, but he's on point here, the Maravilla - Cotto - Canelo chain was probably the most glaring recent example of following the lineage taking you down a rabbit hole. Forgot about that one.

No, man. Nice try but slavishly following the lineage ain't a step forward. All this title bullchit does need sorting but that ain't the way to do it.

[Marchegiano]

Oh, man, the hilarity involved in anyone mistaking AFT for a Golovkin fan...

Can't say I like the dude, but he's on point here, the Maravilla - Cotto - Canelo chain was probably the most glaring recent example of following the lineage taking you down a rabbit hole. Forgot about that one.

No, man. Nice try but slavishly following the lineage ain't a step forward. All this title bullchit does need sorting but that ain't the way to do it.

I always thought it's kinda funny folks act like there is a lineal in divisions that were created by sanctioning bodies.

MW champions exist prior to bodies, but, MW doesn't.

That alone is a cluster**** making all weight divisions that are not HW kind of bull****. You either have a lineage that starts with sanctioned champions, or, you have a lineage in a weight division that fluctuates and has multiple champions at a given time....just like having multiple bodies anyway.

Was Mendoza a MW, LW, or HW? He's the 155lb champion at all three but was he a LW? a MW? or HW? He was never a Welter of any kind, so forget his actual weight or Super Welter. He was a champion in multiple divisions at different times but his actual weight never reflected those divisions.

Without some history " Going back to Sullivan" what's the point of even claiming lineal? You're the man who beat the man who was once undisputed but are not yourself undisputed? Seems like a real ***** award to me.

Slapping together a list of chronological ordered champions who called themselves a divisional champion is at best misinformation and at worst a lie.

[ShaneMosleySr]

How is it a glaring example?

Hopkins has all the belts. Taylor beat him. Pavlik beat him. Martinez beat him. Cotto beat him. Canelo beat him.

How is there anything to sort out there?

You guys just say whatever you want with nothing to back it up.

Oh, man, the hilarity involved in anyone mistaking AFT for a Golovkin fan...

Can't say I like the dude, but he's on point here, the Maravilla - Cotto - Canelo chain was probably the most glaring recent example of following the lineage taking you down a rabbit hole. Forgot about that one.

No, man. Nice try but slavishly following the lineage ain't a step forward. All this title bullchit does need sorting but that ain't the way to do it.

[ShaneMosleySr]

Don’t you get that at some point there was an undisputed champion? Undisputed means he’s the only champion and every one agrees.

Someone beat him. Now he’s the champ. I don’t care if the IBF strips him for some absurd and corrupt reason. Because f**k the IBF, they’re corrupt.

That’s the point. You keep track of the man who beat the man because that’s what matters.

I always thought it's kinda funny folks act like there is a lineal in divisions that were created by sanctioning bodies.

MW champions exist prior to bodies, but, MW doesn't.

That alone is a cluster**** making all weight divisions that are not HW kind of bull****. You either have a lineage that starts with sanctioned champions, or, you have a lineage in a weight division that fluctuates and has multiple champions at a given time....just like having multiple bodies anyway.

Was Mendoza a MW, LW, or HW? He's the 155lb champion at all three but was he a LW? a MW? or HW? He was never a Welter of any kind, so forget his actual weight or Super Welter. He was a champion in multiple divisions at different times but his actual weight never reflected those divisions.

Without some history " Going back to Sullivan" what's the point of even claiming lineal? You're the man who beat the man who was once undisputed but are not yourself undisputed? Seems like a real ***** award to me.

Slapping together a list of chronological ordered champions who called themselves a divisional champion is at best misinformation and at worst a lie.

[soul_survivor]

People complain there are too many champions in boxing.

There’s actually only four if you recognize the man who beat the man instead of this alphabet nonsense.

Let’s boycott all the titles and never talk about them again. Lineal championships are all that matter and it makes boxing much easier to follow.

Who is lineal champion at heavyweight?