Why Haymon fighters stop improving

[Curt Henning]

Seems like an article written by a disgruntled fan that's upset fights he wants to see aren't happening. Of course, he blames this on Haymon and claims it's hurting the growth of PBC fighters. I also doubt the writer has ever stepped into a ring and/or promoted a fighter, so he has no idea what it takes to bring out a fighter's true potential.

Let's start from the top, you open the article and the first thing you see is a picture of Adrien Broner. Broner plateaued. Not because he wasn't challenged, but because he hit his ceiling at 147. He simply can't be elite at that weight class. Next, Adonis Stevenson. He was a good champion for a pretty long time. Not sure what the complaint about him is. Gervonta Davis is a young champion, and it's way too soon to say he's stagnated and won't improve further. He completely puts the blame on Wilder for the Joshua fight not happening...and we can leave it at that.

"Haymon will not take any chances now with Spence, Wilder or Davis and they all know this. So they train with less drive, less ambition, less fear, less danger, less hunger, with less motivation and incentive to prove something. They go through the motions in everything they do in their training. And by not pushing to their limits, their results show the lack of improvement and progress."
Who is this guy to say how hard someone works? Sure, Spence hasn't fought Crawford, but he works VERY hard. He didn't learn anything by fighting Porter? He won't gain anything from fighting Pacquiao? He's just rambling, and inventing reasons to say Haymon's bad for the sport.

lol@ wont take chances....lol...guy put wilder in with oritz when no one else would fight ortiz....then put him in with fury(ok they said he was trying to cherrypick fury and then fury outboxed him) and then wanted an immediate rematch with fury after he was supposedly outclassed

they came up with AJs 50 million and then AJ and hearn backtracked fast and hard

spence has a resume no worse than crawfords

and tank is only 24

LOL...such rubbish

[KTFOKING]

Is he a troll or something? This article read like it was written by one of the buffoons on this site.

Guy is an absolute moron. There isn't enough time to explain how much of a clown he is and how much he believes in conspiracy theories lol. Also, has no problem saying racist stuff.

I remember him saying Wilder/Ortiz was clearly set up and that Ortiz didn't stop Wilder because Haymon told him not to LOL.

[deathofaclown]

Im not even sure it’s true they stop improving

A lot of PBC fighters are inactive compared to matchroom fighters though, so if it’s true, that could be a factor.

What does stop improving mean? Meaning they don’t look as good as they used to once they’re fighting better fighters? That’s boxing.

[DumpkinsPlus5]

Im not even sure it’s true they stop improving

A lot of PBC fighters are inactive compared to matchroom fighters though, so if it’s true, that could be a factor.

What does stop improving mean? Meaning they don’t look as good as they used to once they’re fighting better fighters? That’s boxing.

Exactly. Sky isn't the limit for everyone...

[DJrabit]

You cannot be serious just because Bob says he is trying does not mean it is actually happening. We saw a combination of Pacquaio, Bradley and Marquez seven times because Bob wanted to keep the money in house. When Bob had most of the fighters he wasn't going outside of his stable to make fights.

But those at least were good fights. Charlo next opponent does weak I forgot his name. Wilder vs old man Ortiz give me a freaking break . No Santa Cruz vs RJJ ...PBC is a joke

[El_Mero]

Found this interesting theory on why Al Haymon's fighters stop improving.

http://ringobserver.com/2019/10/11/w...top-improving/

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say its cause they rarely fight good opposition and get too comfortable with the money they're getting.

[Inspired]

hearn didnt offer wilder anything...it was DAZN and DAZN met with wilder without hearn

I honestly didn't like Eddie Hearn before the AJ vs Wilder drama started to heat up. However because I was so interested in seeing that fight, I followed the drama and now I totally see where he's coming from.

Wilder should thank Eddie. Eddie's job was to make wilder vs aj as big as possible in terms of money. He did his part.
Eg wilder was on $1m a fight. Offered wilder $5m for Whyte, Wilder demanded $7m. So Showtime paid Wilder $2m. So already wilder's purse had doubled due to Hearn's involvement.
Then he offered Wilder $12.5m, then $15m. That got Wilder to take the Fury fight because he blatantly ducked AJ, made up every excuse on earth. He got $5m vs Fury.
Just think, he mocked $5m vs whyte and $12.5m vs aj..only to get $5m vs Fury who he claimed was the 'second best hw'.

What im saying btw, is geared more at how Eddie effectively worked his magic and made that fight far bigger..and that is why Dazn offered $120m. So Eddie deserves credit for making all that noise to get to that stage.
That offer was why Showtime followed up by paying wilder $10m.
So in 2 yrs Wilder's 10x his fight purse...and Eddie is the number 1 reason why.

Eddie was spot on when he criticised the way Wilder was promoted. He's never once dissed wilder as a boxer, he's dissed the promotion behind him 2 yrs back when 'no one knew him'.
Furthermore, Eddie has a lot of sway with sky sports eg who does the commentary. Why did sky sports want Wilder on the commentary for aj fights? They gave the man exposure in the UK. He could easily have embraced it. what wilder did was speak well towards AJ in the klitschko fight, then go out and pick a fight with Tony Bellew. Who's idea was that? that was the perfect opportunity for Wilder to make noise in front of the world media and demand a fight vs aj.
I dont think Wilder is afraid, i think it is al haymon holding wilder back until he feels the fight is big enough.

Unfortunately with dazn being a subscription service that's new in the US, to secure aj vs wilder, they needed to stump up $200m levels+. From Al haymon's perspective, they need to **** up dazn by proving that such a big fight can only work on a ppv platform eg 3m buys at $80 is $240m, that's just the US. Dazn is owned by a billionaire but that is a big ask for them to stump up such money up front without having millions of active subs in boxing.

So they were waiting for the fight to get to that level of interest that it could generate 3m buys. Mayweather vs paqcaio did 5.7m buys in the US.

The main problem has been that they didnt add to their side by genuinely making Wilder a household name earlier in his career. Between GBP being for the hispanic market and PBC being newcomers without being outright promoters, Wilder didnt get that traction. Really poor decision making cost him. Should have taken Wladmir Klitschko before Fury or AJ. Should have taken the ibf belt of Charles 'the God' Martin.

it is only in a context where they have aj/hearn to bounce off their level has grown.
However dazn knew they could **** **** up by fixing an aj loss and therefore killing the 'superfight'. they'll be happy with 400k subs for aj vs wilder in future with less money on the cards...as long as it takes it away from ppv.
i genuinely believe the fight was fixed..because dazn's primary business through Opta sports is working with thebetting industry eg sports statistics/data for the betting firms. odds at 35/1 aswell as bringing a lot of attention and potentially mexican subs. win win for them. With odds at 35/1 for a ruiz win, everyone who bet money on aj winning...lost it all.
dazn and aj would have taken cuts off everything.
watch the fight again...aj knows he's supposed to lose..he deliberately gave up.

There's a video where aj talks about howpeople are talking about the way aj predicted he would win by knock out in the 7th...whilst he had his hand on the William hill logo. Why would aj even talk about this? no one asked him, he brought it up in an interview just to try and say 'oh its just a coincidence'. Very strange behaviour from the guy.

Think about this thing from a money and promotional stand point..dazn are talking about how AJ has become more famous, gets talked about more because of this loss.
Basically from a business and promotional stand point, AJ operates on a much higher level than Wilder.

Notice since AJ's loss, Wilder has less traction? look at how showtime didnt want to make the wilder vs ortiz fight ppv. If aj had not lost to ruiz, more people would have their eyes on Wilder in this fight because in the back of people's mind, they're thinking 'who's going to lose first'.
That's gone now.
if spence vs porter did 300k ppv buys, it doesnt look too good for wilder vs ortiz, in relative terms, compared to the money that was thrown around before.

[Monzon99]

Wilder's value increased because of his pretending to want to fight Joshua but with the intent to never actually do it.

Wilder and Haymon don't want the fight ever, they want Joshua to lose and be gone and then keep on mayweathering all the threats in the division that Haymon can't control or buy off.


Most do not know Mayweather and Haymon intended to duck Pacquiao forever but they were forced into it by CBS Showtime boss Les Moonves who wanted that Pac Floyd jackpot.

Haymon and Wilder do not want Joshua but they have to pretend to.

Curious and su****ious how both Povetkin and Whyte, two dangerous threats to Wilder who are NOT under Haymon control, both were accused of using PEDs.

The fact that Wilder and Fury come to terms so easily and conveniently strongly suggests their fight (and rematch) was fixed to increase both of their value, which compared to Joshua, is minuscule. Fury drew about 3000 for his last fight. Wilder is a minor draw still.

[Monzon99]

Agree, Joshua threw the fight to Ruiz. He let Ruiz pose with and hold all the belts after the weigh in and he was photographed smiling together with Ruiz in the ring after the "fight." Also dazn needs a big money fight for AJ and a revenge rematch of a loss (Ruiz) is going to be huge. Hearn knows both Fury and Wilder have no interest to fight AJ, despite their fake public posturing.

[thabanga510]

I honestly didn't like Eddie Hearn before the AJ vs Wilder drama started to heat up. However because I was so interested in seeing that fight, I followed the drama and now I totally see where he's coming from.

Wilder should thank Eddie. Eddie's job was to make wilder vs aj as big as possible in terms of money. He did his part.
Eg wilder was on $1m a fight. Offered wilder $5m for Whyte, Wilder demanded $7m. So Showtime paid Wilder $2m. So already wilder's purse had doubled due to Hearn's involvement.
Then he offered Wilder $12.5m, then $15m. That got Wilder to take the Fury fight because he blatantly ducked AJ, made up every excuse on earth. He got $5m vs Fury.
Just think, he mocked $5m vs whyte and $12.5m vs aj..only to get $5m vs Fury who he claimed was the 'second best hw'.

What im saying btw, is geared more at how Eddie effectively worked his magic and made that fight far bigger..and that is why Dazn offered $120m. So Eddie deserves credit for making all that noise to get to that stage.
That offer was why Showtime followed up by paying wilder $10m.
So in 2 yrs Wilder's 10x his fight purse...and Eddie is the number 1 reason why.

Eddie was spot on when he criticised the way Wilder was promoted. He's never once dissed wilder as a boxer, he's dissed the promotion behind him 2 yrs back when 'no one knew him'.
Furthermore, Eddie has a lot of sway with sky sports eg who does the commentary. Why did sky sports want Wilder on the commentary for aj fights? They gave the man exposure in the UK. He could easily have embraced it. what wilder did was speak well towards AJ in the klitschko fight, then go out and pick a fight with Tony Bellew. Who's idea was that? that was the perfect opportunity for Wilder to make noise in front of the world media and demand a fight vs aj.
I dont think Wilder is afraid, i think it is al haymon holding wilder back until he feels the fight is big enough.

Unfortunately with dazn being a subscription service that's new in the US, to secure aj vs wilder, they needed to stump up $200m levels+. From Al haymon's perspective, they need to **** up dazn by proving that such a big fight can only work on a ppv platform eg 3m buys at $80 is $240m, that's just the US. Dazn is owned by a billionaire but that is a big ask for them to stump up such money up front without having millions of active subs in boxing.

So they were waiting for the fight to get to that level of interest that it could generate 3m buys. Mayweather vs paqcaio did 5.7m buys in the US.

The main problem has been that they didnt add to their side by genuinely making Wilder a household name earlier in his career. Between GBP being for the hispanic market and PBC being newcomers without being outright promoters, Wilder didnt get that traction. Really poor decision making cost him. Should have taken Wladmir Klitschko before Fury or AJ. Should have taken the ibf belt of Charles 'the God' Martin.

it is only in a context where they have aj/hearn to bounce off their level has grown.
However dazn knew they could **** **** up by fixing an aj loss and therefore killing the 'superfight'. they'll be happy with 400k subs for aj vs wilder in future with less money on the cards...as long as it takes it away from ppv.
i genuinely believe the fight was fixed..because dazn's primary business through Opta sports is working with thebetting industry eg sports statistics/data for the betting firms. odds at 35/1 aswell as bringing a lot of attention and potentially mexican subs. win win for them. With odds at 35/1 for a ruiz win, everyone who bet money on aj winning...lost it all.
dazn and aj would have taken cuts off everything.
watch the fight again...aj knows he's supposed to lose..he deliberately gave up.

There's a video where aj talks about howpeople are talking about the way aj predicted he would win by knock out in the 7th...whilst he had his hand on the William hill logo. Why would aj even talk about this? no one asked him, he brought it up in an interview just to try and say 'oh its just a coincidence'. Very strange behaviour from the guy.

Think about this thing from a money and promotional stand point..dazn are talking about how AJ has become more famous, gets talked about more because of this loss.
Basically from a business and promotional stand point, AJ operates on a much higher level than Wilder.

Notice since AJ's loss, Wilder has less traction? look at how showtime didnt want to make the wilder vs ortiz fight ppv. If aj had not lost to ruiz, more people would have their eyes on Wilder in this fight because in the back of people's mind, they're thinking 'who's going to lose first'.
That's gone now.
if spence vs porter did 300k ppv buys, it doesnt look too good for wilder vs ortiz, in relative terms, compared to the money that was thrown around before.

Man Eddie I didn't know you read the boxingscene message board.

Oh yea no one is going to read all of that.