Name Gvov, Bivol and Beterbiev's top 3 wins?

[Beterbiev#1]

For instance do you rank Pacquiao higher than Spence or Crawford at 147? He has 3 better wins than both of them combined.

Great question. I will apply my reasoning to your question. When evaluating who should be #1, I look at not only "who" you beat, but "when" you beat them. Let's look at Crawford, Spence and Pacquiao's resumes since Pac lost to Horn. We'll use that as a starting marker when talking about these 3 unless you'd like to change the dates; either way suits me because my theory remains consistent.

Pac - Lost to unranked Horn in 2017.
In 2018, he beat #7 Mathysse. In 2019, he beat #3 Keith Thurman. In summary, since Pac has lost, he's beaten #3 and #7 since he lost to Jeff Horn in '17.

Spence - Since 2017, Spence beat #1 Kell Brook. #6 Peterson in 2018 and the #1 ranked LW in Mikey Garcia in 2019. In summary, Spence has 2 top 10 wins at WW. One being against the #1 guy.

Crawford - In 2018, Crawford beat #8 Horn. In 2019, Crawford has no Top 10 wins. But the reason he's ranked so high is because of his body of work from previous weight classes (e.g. 130, 135 and 140)

But to remain consistent regarding body of work at 147, Spence would be #1, followed by Pac at #2 and then Porter and Crawford if not for Crawford's body of work in previous weight classes..

The reason 147 is different than 175 is because of respective resumes. Crawford is the wildcard here. If Crawford wasn't a 4 weight champ, we wouldn't be having this discussion as his resume at 147 is weak.

Based on your top 3 wins theory... who’s your #2 at 175? Jean Pascal? Chad Dawson? You can’t claim Kovalev is the #1 guy at 175 cause he had better wins years prior.

Based off my theory, the top 4 people at 175 are:

1. Kovalev
2. Gvov
3. Bivol
4. Alvarez

Here's why. Let's look at their respective resumes starting in 2017 since Kovalev lost to Ward the end of 2016:

Since 2017, Kovalev - beat #10 Shabranskyy in 2017. In 2018 lost to #3 Alvarez. In 2019 beat #1 Alvarez. In Summary, in the last 3 years, he lost to the #3 guy and beat the #1 and #10 guys in The Ring rankings.

Beterbiev - Not one Ring top 10 win from 2017-2019. In summary, no top 10 wins at all.

Bivol - In 2017 no top 10 wins. In 2018, beat #7 Barrera. In 2019, beat #9 Joe Smith Jr. In summary, he has 2 top 10 wins, #7/9, respectively.

Gvov - In 2017, no top 10 wins. In 2018, he beat #2 Stevenson. In 2019, no top 10 wins. In summary, he has 1 Top 10 win since being a professional, let alone since 2017.

Kovalev is still a good fighter, and I give Canelo credit for jumping up in weight to fight him, but to say he’s #1 based on top 3 wins is just ****** IMO.

Since 2017 is the starting marker, per your request, Kovalev has beaten the Ring #1 and #10 guys. Gvov has beaten the #2 guy. Bivol has beaten the #7 & #9 guys. Beterbiev hasn't beaten anyone in the Top 10.

What am I missing?

[Beterbiev#1]

This is another thread by you trying to prove Kovalev is the best light heavyweight. He is no longer the best champion at 175. He is the worst, the oldest and the most vulnerable and that is why Canelo picked him and made it clear he would not fight any light heavyweight champion but Kovalev. Kovalev just had a close call in his last fight against Yarde who is not very good at all. His trainer damn near gave up the fight when Yarde had Kovalev in trouble from body punches. The three young undefeated light heavyweight champs would not likely have had any trouble KOing Yarde. Canelo studies these guys hard before he fights them. He knew Fielding was no good and he was a 12 to 1 favorite to beat Fielding. He did not fight Smith who had KOed Fielding in two rounds shortly before Canelo fought Fielding. I think Canelo is now a solid 4 to 1 favorite to beat Kovalev. If Canelo was fighting any of the other younger undefeated light heavyweight champs he would not by so heavily favored to win. The betting places don't always get the odds right but they usually do because their living depends on it. Keep on trying to prove that Canelo is fighting the best light heavyweight champ in the world. I am not buying it and I doubt many others are buying it. Kovalev is 36. He has lost 3 of his last 7 fights including 2 KO losses. He was the best years ago but not today.

You said all that while skipping the following:

Gvov - Beat an inactive 42 year old who averaged 1 fight a year since 2016. You also refuse to acknowledge that Stevenson was saved by the bell several times against Jack. You also won't acknowledge how Gvov was dropped by. Journeyman and almost stopped.

You claim he's not the best champions, but he has beaten the #1 and # 10 guys. Gvov has only beaten the #2 guy. Bivol has beaten #7/9. Beterbiev doesn't even have a top 10 win.

Then you talk about how Canelo is picking and choosing opponents while covering 160-175. Well, let me ask you, did you defend Golovkin when he fought Steve Rolls, Vanes and refused to rematch Jacobs?

You claim Kovalev has 3 losses, 2 by KO, were you one of the guys saying Kovalev was robbed against Ward and the 2nd fight should've been a DQ against Ward for low blows?

If so, based off your own theory, Kovalev has really only lost once.

[Beterbiev#1]

But you ignore Kovalev's age, and the fact that he got KO'd against Alvarez, and almost stopped against Yarde last fight?

try harder when you troll.

I never ignored that. Just like I haven't ignored the fact that Kovalev not only avenged his loss to Alvarez but was comfortably beating him in the first fight before he got caught.

What I'm saying is at 36, Kovalev is still a better and more proven fighter at 175 than any of the other champions.

I'm also saying, if Beterbiev was dropped by Jeff Paige Jr/Johnson, I can also see him being dropped and stopped by Yarde.

The same applies to Gvov. If a journeyman named Tommy Karpency can almost stop Gvov, I see no reason why Yarde can't either. An inactive 42 year old Stevenson really hurt Gvov also. I don't see why Yarde can't do the same.

In summary, a 36 year old Kovalev is still better and more proven than the other champs at 175.

The same ways guys are saying Yarde was green, will be the same thing they'd say if Canelo beat Bivol.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Great question. I will apply my reasoning to your question. When evaluating who should be #1, I look at not only "who" you beat, but "when" you beat them. Let's look at Crawford, Spence and Pacquiao's resumes since Pac lost to Horn. We'll use that as a starting marker when talking about these 3 unless you'd like to change the dates; either way suits me because my theory remains consistent.

Pac - Lost to unranked Horn in 2017.
In 2018, he beat #7 Mathysse. In 2019, he beat #3 Keith Thurman. In summary, since Pac has lost, he's beaten #3 and #7 since he lost to Jeff Horn in '17.

Spence - Since 2017, Spence beat #1 Kell Brook. #6 Peterson in 2018 and the #1 ranked LW in Mikey Garcia in 2019. In summary, Spence has 2 top 10 wins at WW. One being against the #1 guy.

Crawford - In 2018, Crawford beat #8 Horn. In 2019, Crawford has no Top 10 wins. But the reason he's ranked so high is because of his body of work from previous weight classes (e.g. 130, 135 and 140)

But to remain consistent regarding body of work at 147, Spence would be #1, followed by Pac and then Crawford.

The reason 147 is different than 175 is because of respective resumes. Crawford is the wildcard here. If Crawford wasn't a 4 weight champ, we wouldn't be having this discussion as his resume at 147 is weak.



Based off my theory, the top 4 people at 175 are:

1. Kovalev
2. Gvov
3. Bivol
4. Alvarez

Here's why. Let's look at their respective resumes starting in 2017 since Kovalev lost to Ward the end of 2016:

Since 2017, Kovalev - beat #10 Shabranskyy in 2017. In 2018 lost to #3 Alvarez. In 2019 beat #1 Alvarez. In Summary, in the last 3 years, he lost to the #3 guy and beat the #1 and #10 guys in The Ring rankings.

Beterbiev - Not one Ring top 10 win from 2017-2019. In summary, no top 10 wins at all.

Bivol - In 2017 no top 10 wins. In 2018, beat #7 Barrera. In 2019, beat #9 Joe Smith Jr. In summary, he has 2 top 10 wins, #7/9, respectively.

Gvov - In 2017, no top 10 wins. In 2018, he beat #2 Stevenson. In 2019, no top 10 wins. In summary, he has 1 Top 10 win since being a professional, let alone since 2017.




Since 2017 is the starting marker, per your request, Kovalev has beaten the Ring #1 and #10 guys. Gvov has beaten the #2 guy. Bivol has beaten the #7 & #9 guys. Beterbiev hasn't beaten anyone in the Top 10.

What am I missing?

Completely depends what rankings you source...

Per the TBRB Gvodzyk defeated the lineal champion therefore is #1.

Rankings are extremely subjective and quite often wrong, Kell Brook being #1 at 147 is utterly ridiculous, Ring are very much unreliable these days. Brook could never be ranked above Pacquiao, Garcia, Thurman etc in 17 based on any logical metric. Apply your own theory to Brook being #1 in May 2017. It’s absolutely absurd... the guy had one good win.

Your theory is evidently flawed if your only basing it off one ranking system.

[_Rexy_]

I never ignored that. Just like I haven't ignored the fact that Kovalev not only avenged his loss to Alvarez but was comfortably beating him in the first fight before he got caught.

What I'm saying is at 36, Kovalev is still a better and more proven fighter at 175 than any of the other champions.

I'm also saying, if Beterbiev was dropped by Jeff Paige Jr/Johnson, I can also see him being dropped and stopped by Yarde.

The same applies to Gvov. If a journeyman named Tommy Karpency can almost stop Gvov, I see no reason why Yarde can't either. An inactive 42 year old Stevenson really hurt Gvov also. I don't see why Yarde can't do the same.

In summary, a 36 year old Kovalev is still better and more proven than the other champs at 175.

The same ways guys are saying Yarde was green, will be the same thing they'd say if Canelo beat Bivol.

Never saw the Beterbiev/Paige fight, so I won't comment on it. Beterbiev did get dropped by Callium Johnson, who is likely one of the three hardest hitting guys at 175 (Beterbiev, Johnson, JSJ) and he got up, and finished the fight.

And Karpency didn't almost stop Gvoz either. Gvoz walked into a shot, got dropped, got up and dominated the fight. Being dropped is part of the sport. If you get up, and win the fight then who the **** cares?

[Beterbiev#1]

Completely depends what rankings you source...

Per the TBRB Gvodzyk defeated the lineal champion therefore is #1.

Rankings are extremely subjective and quite often wrong, Kell Brook being #1 at 147 is utterly ridiculous, Ring are very much unreliable these days. Brook could never be ranked above Pacquiao, Garcia, Thurman etc in 17 based on any logical metric. Apply your own theory to Brook being #1 in May 2017. It’s absolutely absurd... the guy had one good win.

Your theory is evidently flawed if your only basing it off one ranking system.

Explain to me how it's absurd? Were you not following the sport back then?

Floyd beat Manny and then fought Berto later that year and retired. After Floyd retired, Brook moved into the #1 spot since he was already ranked #3 in front of Bradley, Thurman, etc. Pac beat Bradley and Jesse Vargas which wasn't enough to take Brooks #1 spot. It wasn't until Brook lost to Spence that he lost that #1 spot.

These are facts in how it played out.

Brook was the first to beat Porter for the IBF when Thurman had the interim WBA title

[Beterbiev#1]

Never saw the Beterbiev/Paige fight

,

Well, it might help to watch the fight when speaking in a debate about who the top guy at 175 should be.

Beterbiev did get dropped by Callium Johnsonwho is likely one of the three hardest hitting guys at 175 (Beterbiev, Johnson, JSJ)

Oh lord, her we go.

And Karpency didn't almost stop Gvoz either. Gvoz walked into a shot, got dropped, got up and dominated the fight

https://*************/watch?v=CLuq_FxWSCI

He was very wobbly and hurt when he got up. If Tommy jumped on him like he should've, Gvov wouldn't had made it out the first round.

Being dropped is part of the sport. If you get up, and win the fight then who the **** cares?

I agree with this which is why I'm having a hard time accepting people writing Kovalev off because he was hurt by Yarde and stopped by Alvarez. The other guys who are now including the Ward victories never even acknowledged those victories previously because they were detracting from Ward. And now in an effort to discredit Canelo, all of a sudden they're counting the Ward victories.

Which one is it?

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Explain to me how it's absurd? Were you not following the sport back then?

Floyd beat Manny and then fought Her to later that year and retired. After Floyd retired, Brook moved into the #1 spot since he was already ranked #3 in front of Bradley. Pac beat Bradley and Jesse Vargas which wasn't enough to take Brooks #1 spot. It wasn't until Brook lost to Spence that he lost that #1 spot.

These are facts in how it played out.

Brook was the first to beat Porter.

Pac convincingly beat Bradley when they were viewed by many including the TBRB as #1 and #2, then he beat reigning WBO champ Jessie Vargas.

Brook edged Shawn Porter by MD in 2014, made 3 irrelevant defences against Bizier, JoJo Dan and Frankie Gavin, then got smashed in 5 rounds by GGG.

To say Brook was #1 in May 2017 is completely absurd.

I see you’re using ring ratings to try and justify your Brook was #1 argument. But those same ratings have Gvodzyk rated above Kovalev which contradicts your entire argument.

[Beterbiev#1]

Pac convincingly beat Bradley when they were viewed by many including the TBRB as #1 and #2, then he beat reigning WBO champ Jessie Vargas

How was Pac #1 or #2 anything when he had just lost to Mayweather? And the WBO is a Top Rank belt kept in house.

Brook edged Shawn Porter by MD in 2014, made 3 irrelevant defences against Bizier, JoJo Dan and Frankie Gavin, then got smashed in 5 rounds by GGG.

To say Brook was #1 in May 2017 is completely absurd

Losing to a MW at MW, doesn't mean you lose your WW belt. That's flawed logic.

I see you’re using ring ratings to try and justify your Brook was #1 argument. But those same ratings have Gvodzyk rated above Kovalev which contradicts your entire argument.

Good catch as I didn't look at The Ring ratings for this month as I was going off the fact that they had Alvarez as their #1 guy to start 2019 over Gvov. Since Kovalev beat the #1 guy in Alvarez, I figured that would make him #1 in the rankings while Gvov remained at #2.

That doesn't make sense.

Regarding TBRB rankings and Cliff Rold, at the end of the day, you asked my theory and what logic I use when assessing who should be the top guy in the division. I explained how I look at The Ring rankings as well as not just "who" was beat, but "when" they were beat. It's not a perfect system as is any system, but I think Kovalev has the stronger body of work and is the most proven at 175.

[_Rexy_]

,

Well, it might help to watch the fight when speaking in a debate about who the top guy at 175 should be.




Oh lord, her we go.





https://*************/watch?v=CLuq_FxWSCI

He was very wobbly and hurt when he got up. If Tommy jumped on him like he should've, Gvov wouldn't had made it out the first round.





I agree with this which is why I'm having a hard time accepting people writing Kovalev off because he was hurt by Yarde and stopped by Alvarez. The other guys who are now including the Ward victories never even acknowledged those victories previously because they were detracting from Ward. And now in an effort to discredit Canelo, all of a sudden they're counting the Ward victories.

Which one is it?

So you've watched every fight from Kovalev, Gvozdyk, Beterbiev and Bivol? I'm impressed.