lol at Showtime being 'America's boxing Network'

[crashdude]

Showtime has the better fights by miles. The two top candidates for fight of the year were both televised by Showtime this year. What the hell are you talking about? Showtime whooped HBO's ass in 2005 too. They don't have the best fighters, but their quality of fights isn't even comparable. Showtime has HBO whooped.

The reason why Showtime airs its good fights for free is because they know they don't have the quality of boxers good enough to compete against HBO's pay-per-view events, if the situation was reverse HBO would do the same thing. Showtime knows that people wont pay 50 bucks to watch only the 3rd and 4th best fighters of a division compete for leftovers. And besides, HBO's live fights have been BETTER this year (2006)than showtime's has.

[restless_438]

The reason why Showtime airs its good fights for free is because they know they don't have the quality of boxers good enough to compete against HBO's pay-per-view events, if the situation was reverse HBO would do the same thing. Showtime knows that people wont pay 50 bucks to watch only the 3rd and 4th best fighters of a division compete for leftovers. And besides, HBO's live fights have been BETTER this year (2006)than showtime's has.

If you're looking at "quality" of boxers on HBO PPV vs. regular Showtime here recently, Showtime wins hands down.. you really should take a look at what fights have been on when you use the word "quality".. so far, HBO is slighty ahead of Showtime this year, but not by much...

[crashdude]

If you're looking at "quality" of boxers on HBO PPV vs. regular Showtime here recently, Showtime wins hands down.. you really should take a look at what fights have been on when you use the word "quality".. so far, HBO is slighty ahead of Showtime this year, but not by much...

By 'quality' i mean the best fighters of the divisions, HBO has them in all the divisions except for the 140 lb. and the insignificant 'cruiserweight' division, as well as all the smaller divisions under 130 which no one hardly cares about anyway. And yes, you admit.. HBO's tv fights this year have been better than Showtime's ones. So basically HBO is running a clean sweep this year. And again no offense to Showtime, as i said before, i applaud them for showing good boxing. I just find it laughable when they say they are better than HBO, that's all.

[neils7147933]

By 'quality' i mean the best fighters of the divisions, HBO has them in all the divisions except for the 140 lb. and the insignificant 'cruiserweight' division, as well as all the smaller divisions under 130 which no one hardly cares about anyway. And yes, you admit.. HBO's tv fights this year have been better than Showtime's ones. So basically HBO is running a clean sweep this year. And again no offense to Showtime, as i said before, i applaud them for showing good boxing. I just find it laughable when they say they are better than HBO, that's all.

Name some of HBO's TV fights that you believe are so high quality.

For my money, the top 3 fights of the year so far are Lyakhovich vs. Brewster, Cintron vs. Estrada, and Cotto vs. Malignaggi - none of which have been on the HBO network.

Barrera/Juarez, Hatton/Collazo, and Wright/Taylor were all ultimately underwhelming, and Tarver/Hopkins II and DLH/Mayorga on PPV were total mismatches - something HBO is good at scheduling...

Shobox > BAD as well...

And apparently HBO knows it - that's why ShoBox alums Cintron, Sechew Powell, Paul Williams, Juan Diaz, Rocky Juarez, Mike Arnaoutis, Ricky Hatton and many more are scheduled or have been scheduled for HBO dates

[restless_438]

By 'quality' i mean the best fighters of the divisions, HBO has them in all the divisions except for the 140 lb. and the insignificant 'cruiserweight' division, as well as all the smaller divisions under 130 which no one hardly cares about anyway. And yes, you admit.. HBO's tv fights this year have been better than Showtime's ones. So basically HBO is running a clean sweep this year. And again no offense to Showtime, as i said before, i applaud them for showing good boxing. I just find it laughable when they say they are better than HBO, that's all.

I don't think i've ever heard Showtime say "We are better than HBO", or vice versa... i think you're mistaking "best" fighters for "name" fighters..

Well, let's look by division:

Heavyweight: Klitschko (HBO), Rahman (HBO), Liakhovich (SHO) Toney (SHO)

Cruiser: Bell (SHO), basically the whole division (which you mentioned), which is a very good one with Jones, Cunningham, etc..

Light Heavy: Tarver (HBO), Johnson (SHO)

Super Middle: Calzaghe (SHO), Lacy (SHO), my guess is a Kessler fight will emerge on showtime as well

Middleweight: Taylor (HBO), Wright (HBO), Abraham (my guess will be showtime)

Jr Middle: Karmazin (SHO), Ouma (HBO), Mosley (HBO)

Welterweight: Mayweather (HBO), HBO takes this division

Jr Welter: Hatton (HBO), Castillo (SHO)

Lightweight: Corrales (SHO), Casamayor (SHO), Diaz (HBO)

Jr Light: Barrera (HBO)

Featherweight: Marquez (SHO)

seems to me like you're not taking into account ALL talent shown on both networks.. plus, almost every future champion you see in the next 10-some years will be on showtime first as showtime has a great up-and-comers program in Shobox whereas HBO won't show fighters unless one or both are easily marketable..

[crashdude]

Name some of HBO's TV fights that you believe are so high quality.

For my money, the top 3 fights of the year so far are Lyakhovich vs. Brewster, Cintron vs. Estrada, and Cotto vs. Malignaggi - none of which have been on the HBO network.

Barrera/Juarez, Hatton/Collazo, and Wright/Taylor were all ultimately underwhelming, and Tarver/Hopkins II and DLH/Mayorga on PPV were total mismatches - something HBO is good at scheduling...

Shobox > BAD as well...

And apparently HBO knows it - that's why ShoBox alums Cintron, Sechew Powell, Paul Williams, Juan Diaz, Rocky Juarez, Mike Arnaoutis, Ricky Hatton and many more are scheduled or have been scheduled for HBO dates

I wont go into all the fights but I will say that you can't 'predict' which fights are going to be good, you can only start with the best ingredients - the fighters - and HBO has the best. I agree that mismatches arent good for entertainment value but neither is showing fighters who are less than the best. Maybe last week in Iowa two flyweights ranked in the top 700 had the Best Fight of the Year but does anyone care? No. BTW, one of the few fighters that HBO retains who isnt in the top two is Arturo Gatti, they keep him around because he makes fights exciting everytime he competes.

[neils7147933]

I wont go into all the fights but I will say that you can't 'predict' which fights are going to be good, you can only start with the best ingredients - the fighters - and HBO has the best. I agree that mismatches arent good for entertainment value but neither is showing fighters who are less than the best. Maybe last week in Iowa two flyweights ranked in the top 700 had the Best Fight of the Year but does anyone care? No. BTW, one of the few fighters that HBO retains who isnt in the top two is Arturo Gatti, they keep him around because he makes fights exciting everytime he competes.

HBO may have more elite fighters under contract, but they're often reluctant to match them against opponents that have a good shot at beating their "franchise" guys...

[crashdude]

I don't think i've ever heard Showtime say "We are better than HBO", or vice versa... i think you're mistaking "best" fighters for "name" fighters..

Well, let's look by division:

Heavyweight: Klitschko (HBO), Rahman (HBO), Liakhovich (SHO) Toney (SHO)

Cruiser: Bell (SHO), basically the whole division (which you mentioned), which is a very good one with Jones, Cunningham, etc..

Light Heavy: Tarver (HBO), Johnson (SHO)

Super Middle: Calzaghe (SHO), Lacy (SHO), my guess is a Kessler fight will emerge on showtime as well

Middleweight: Taylor (HBO), Wright (HBO), Abraham (my guess will be showtime)

Jr Middle: Karmazin (SHO), Ouma (HBO), Mosley (HBO)

Welterweight: Mayweather (HBO), HBO takes this division

Jr Welter: Hatton (HBO), Castillo (SHO)

Lightweight: Corrales (SHO), Casamayor (SHO), Diaz (HBO)

Jr Light: Barrera (HBO)

Featherweight: Marquez (SHO)

seems to me like you're not taking into account ALL talent shown on both networks.. plus, almost every future champion you see in the next 10-some years will be on showtime first as showtime has a great up-and-comers program in Shobox whereas HBO won't show fighters unless one or both are easily marketable..

Showtime has, on many occasions said they are the 'number one boxing network' and recently they've been saying they are 'America's boxing network'.

Here'smy division analysis, which were a bit different than yours:

I'll give you the Supermiddleweight division btw, which i forgot about..

Heavyweights: 1. Klitschko (HBO) 2.Liakhovich, also Brewster, Valuev, Rahmin (HBO) and Toney (HBO).. i'll give the heavyweights to HBO

Lt. Heavy.. Tarver (HBO), johnson,.. I agree also this division is about a tie to both networks

Middlweights: 1. Wright (HBO) 2. Taylor (HBO), also Hopkins (HBO) Abraham, Pantera. HBO wins middlewights

Superwelterweights: 1. Delahoya (HBO) 2. Mosley (HBO) 3. Dzindziruk.. hbo wins

Welterweights: 1. Mayweather (HBO) 2. Margarito 3. Hatton (HBO) (he's in welters now i believe) HBO also has crowd favorites zab judah and Arturo Gatti, HBO wins by a mile.

superlightweights: showtime wins this one

Lightweights: 1. Corrales 2. Freitas (HBO) 3. Chavez.. maybe showtime has this one

Superfeatherweights: 1. Manny Pacuiao (HBO) 2. Marco Antonio Barrera (HBO) 3. Erik Morales (HBO).. hbo cleans sweeps the superfeathweights

In all.. i think HBO has by far the most impressive and important fighters.. like mayweather, delahoya, klitschko, wright, taylor, mosley, pacuiao, hopkins, barrera, hatton. Especially the biggest draws too.

[vB Martin]

Showtime puts better matches on their free broadcasts than HBO does on their PPVs. It's funny how some people object to gay programming (why, I will never understand) but love to take it in the ass from HBO for fights.

[vB Martin]

Crashdude, do you loe boxing or big name, prima donna fighters who rarely fight anyone of note?

I would rather see 2 unknown fighters trying to make a name for themselves than a prima donna fighting a severely overmatched opponent or 2 former superstars battle each other on PPV in a non-title fight.
Occasionally HBO will put on a really good match, but it's more the exception than the rule. They are more into giving you a big name headliner fighting a no one and charging you to see the slaughter. If that's what you like, then HBO is definitely for you.