Prime Andre Ward sweeps the current field at 168

[Curt Henning]

Don't think I am underselling Ward. I'm not. I won a fair bit of money by the rule 'always bet on Ward'. That's how good I thought he was.

But realistically, I saw him get outboxed by Kovalev.

That says a huge amount. People predicated that Kovalev might win by virtue of his knockout power, but assumed that Ward would easily win if it went to the scorecards.

Nope. Ward got cleanly outboxed. Not by a huge amount, it was a close fight. But the sheer fact he got outboxed by Kovalev?

I'm not trying to minimise how good Kovalev was either - I think he was also great.

Joe would have been too much for him. Joe was smarter, faster, could adapt better and was relentless. Ward couldn't knock him out and couldn't keep up with Joe's stamina. Ward would have taken three of the first six rounds, then lost all of the last six.

It might be hyperbole to say that would make Ward look like an amateur - but it would have been a definitive, and not all that close - win to Joe.

he got outboxed by kov for the first 6 of the first fight...thats really about it...after that he came on....ive watched it without the sound and the friggin lederman scoring....i cant stand when guys simply award rounds to the more agressive guy...which lederman tried to do in both fights

i think sometimes, no matter how good you are, when youre moving up and facing a bigger guy who is known to be a killer p4p ko artist you are tentative....and you give him alot of respect.....i saw the same with canelo against golovkin....canelo probably could have easily fought the way he did in the 2nd fight in the first....but he was respectful of golovkin because he wasnt sure and only knew what everyone else thought they knew

i think ward was a bit hesitant and cautious....once he realized that kovalev wasnt going to do anything to him he couldnt handle than he fought better and obviously went into the rematch without fear...obviously also i cant not mention what i thought was a difference in size...i know most of the tale of the tape will tell you they are similar...but ward looked like the smaller guy to me and i think ward must have felt that too

i dont disagree with your stance on calzaghe/ward...all those things you said about joe are true....and thats your opinion that calzaghe is too much for ward and i cant tell you youre wrong cause i could easily see it play out that way....but as you said "dont bet against ward"....i could also see andre nullifying some of joes stuff and frustrating him too....ward is a tricky puzzle....and he just doesnt lose....i see it as a tossup and a 50/50

[boliodogs]

Lol funny how whenever brits run a division you guys call it 'weak'. Andre ward wasnt all that....

I didn't want to be the first to say that with this massive Ward love affair going on but I agree he wasn't all that. Callum Smith is a very good boxer who can punch. I thought Ward was a wrestling,mauling clinching fighter who was terrible to watch. Everyone seems to love him today. To each his own.

[R_Walken]

160 is worse, the top guy in the division got beat 2x by a guy with 0 wins at the weight. The #2 guy in the division Jacobs, is struggling with Euro level guys like Sulecki & Derey. The 3rd guy in the division, Charlo, just struggled mightily with Andy Lee's leftovers, Korobov.

No way

160 has 2 guys guaranteed to go to the HOF Canelo / Golovkin

A bunch of fighters with outstanding Olympic/Professional pedigrees Saunders / Andrade / Jacobs /Devre

And a fighter who was one of the best and a champion in a solid 154 division in Charlo they’re all been proven to be legit

At 168 none of the young guys have a elite amateur pedigree , maybe Plant can be looked at decent

All have maybe 1 decent win to their name except Plant beating Uzi all of the rest are against Fighters on their last legs on their way out

None are looked at as future HoFers , P4Pers or even top notch Champs of their era at this point

Canelo went up there for a layup fight and blasted out a top 10 fighter who held a strap with ease ;

Off the top of my head the top 168 guys Smith, Eubank ; Uzi , Dirrell ,’Plant , Benavidez ,’Zurdo Have a total of around 7ish wins against former or current World champs

160 among Canelo , Golovkin, Jacobs , Devre,’Saunders ,Charlo , Andrade have almost 20 off the top of my head

If Saunders moves up to 168 he’s probably going to be instantly a top 2-4 guy in the division and the most accomplishmented, The division is weak and the pedigree and accomplishments of the guys at 160 sh.ts all over 168

[Cutthroat]

No way

160 has 2 guys guaranteed to go to the HOF Canelo / Golovkin

Canelo has only had 2 fights at 160 though, as many as he's had at 168, and far less than in any other division.

ggg isn't much better than Abraham, he made his name in a vacant division.

-Super 6 initially cleaned out the division, Abraham, Taylor, Miranda, Green, 2 champions & 2 contenders.
-Hopkins moved up to LHW on his own accord, a champion.
-Pavlik chased Hopkins to LHW and was ruined, another champion.
-Pavlik came back down a shot fighter after losing to a guy not even in the division.
-Martinez barely beat a shot Pavlik, but he was already in his mid 30's and on a rapid decline.
-Pirog was supposed to be the guy after blasting out Jacobs but he wound up retiring due to an injury.

Then ggg & company came along.

A bunch of fighters with outstanding Olympic/Professional pedigrees Saunders / Andrade / Jacobs /Devre

And a fighter who was one of the best and a champion in a solid 154 division in Charlo they’re all been proven to be legit

At 168 none of the young guys have a elite amateur pedigree , maybe Plant can be looked at decent

All have maybe 1 decent win to their name except Plant beating Uzi all of the rest are against Fighters on their last legs on their way out

None are looked at as future HoFers , P4Pers or even top notch Champs of their era at this point

BJS almost lost to Eubank Jr., he got a gift knock down against Lee which won him the fight by 1pt as well.

Derey is unproven, Andrade went life and death with Euro level Culcay, and Jacobs was already blasted out with ease by Pirog.

Lee also put Korobov out cold whereas Charlo came very close to losing.

Canelo went up there for a layup fight and blasted out a top 10 fighter who held a strap with ease ;

Off the top of my head the top 168 guys Smith, Eubank ; Uzi , Dirrell ,’Plant , Benavidez ,’Zurdo Have a total of around 7ish wins against former or current World champs

160 among Canelo , Golovkin, Jacobs , Devre,’Saunders ,Charlo , Andrade have almost 20 off the top of my head

If Saunders moves up to 168 he’s probably going to be instantly a top 2-4 guy in the division and the most accomplishmented, The division is weak and the pedigree and accomplishments of the guys at 160 sh.ts all over 168

There have been far more failed top 10 160lbers at 168 than guys that were successful. Fielding was barely top 10 and had already been finished in 1 round by Smith. Fielding has been struggling with journeymen.

-Chavez Jr. was top 3 @ 160, should've lost his 1st fight to Vera and didn't even bother fighting the champions because he knew he'd lose.

-Martin Murray was ranked 7th when he moved up, lost to a shot Abraham.

-Brant is top 10 and got completely schooled by a 39 year old Braehmer.

-Eubank Jr. was top 10 at 160 and got schooled by Groves (Deglae has been shot for years now)

160 has all but been taken over by 154.

[pillowfists98]

Of course he does. None of these current 168 champions would be competitive against Ward. Ward is the greatest SMW of all time. Better than Calzaghe.

[Cutthroat]

eh...i disagree...i think MW is kinda weak....but they have 3 guys there that are still better than the top 3 at 168....even if you believe charlo is overrated id put the top 3 at 160 over the top 3 at 168 p4p wise...even with an old and fading golovkin in that mix

168 simply doesnt have 4 guys as good as canelo, golovki, jacbos and charlo

Idk about that, 160 isn't even Canelo/Charlo/Andrade's natural weight, these are good fighters no doubt, but these are all blown up junior middles. I saw Canelo sparring against Zurdo and he had a hell of a time trying to get inside, not convinced he beats him.


I don't consider Sulekci/Derey/Korobov better than Benavidez/Plant/Smith/Zurdo etc. and they almost beat Jacobs/Charlo.

There were a lot of people that felt Brant could even beat ggg at this stage and Brant got schooled at 168 by a 40 year old man moving down in weight.

[4truth]

If he could make weight, which he probably can’t. 168 is not a strong division right now, he would have few rivals who could compete with him.

A better question is how he would do in the division with more talented fighters his own size. I’m sure Ward has asked himself that question and after considering his age and injuries, opted out.

[Curt Henning]

Idk about that, 160 isn't even Canelo/Charlo/Andrade's natural weight, these are good fighters no doubt, but these are all blown up junior middles. I saw Canelo sparring against Zurdo and he had a hell of a time trying to get inside, not convinced he beats him.


I don't consider Sulekci/Derey/Korobov better than Benavidez/Plant/Smith/Zurdo etc. and they almost beat Jacobs/Charlo.

There were a lot of people that felt Brant could even beat ggg at this stage and Brant got schooled at 168 by a 40 year old man moving down in weight.

oh i hear you on canelo, charlo and andrade.....but ive seen canelo do well enough against a natural MW in golovkin to believe these guys are legit at MW....its not a huge jump...its one we see quite commonly

im not saying theres a huge discrepancy...but p4p wise the top 4 at mw are more talented than the top 4 at 168...and that even includes and old and fading golovkin

[R_Walken]

Canelo has only had 2 fights at 160 though, as many as he's had at 168, and far less than in any other division.

ggg isn't much better than Abraham, he made his name in a vacant division.

-Super 6 initially cleaned out the division, Abraham, Taylor, Miranda, Green, 2 champions & 2 contenders.
-Hopkins moved up to LHW on his own accord, a champion.
-Pavlik chased Hopkins to LHW and was ruined, another champion.
-Pavlik came back down a shot fighter after losing to a guy not even in the division.
-Martinez barely beat a shot Pavlik, but he was already in his mid 30's and on a rapid decline.
-Pirog was supposed to be the guy after blasting out Jacobs but he wound up retiring due to an injury.

Then ggg & company came along.




BJS almost lost to Eubank Jr., he got a gift knock down against Lee which won him the fight by 1pt as well.

Derey is unproven, Andrade went life and death with Euro level Culcay, and Jacobs was already blasted out with ease by Pirog.

Lee also put Korobov out cold whereas Charlo came very close to losing.



There have been far more failed top 10 160lbers at 168 than guys that were successful. Fielding was barely top 10 and had already been finished in 1 round by Smith. Fielding has been struggling with journeymen.

-Chavez Jr. was top 3 @ 160, should've lost his 1st fight to Vera and didn't even bother fighting the champions because he knew he'd lose.

-Martin Murray was ranked 7th when he moved up, lost to a shot Abraham.

-Brant is top 10 and got completely schooled by a 39 year old Braehmer.

-Eubank Jr. was top 10 at 160 and got schooled by Groves (Deglae has been shot for years now)

160 has all but been taken over by 154.

Some fair points and I don’t agree with everything , I’m sure you could nit pick every division if you wanted

But the way I see it is right now the top 7 MWs with their Amateur pedigree , who’ve they’ve beaten and accomplished and compare it to the Pedigree, quality wins and their accomplishments of the top 7 at 168

5 /7 of the top MW were Olympians compared to 0 /7 for 168 .

2 future HOFers at MW / 0 at 168

The top 7 MWs have Roughly 20 wins over past or present World Champs and 6/7 have at least 2 wins , The Top 7 at 168 have about 7 with only 2/7 having more then 1’win over past or current champs , Canelo has more Wins against champions single handily then the top 7 at 168

3 Fighters at MW have unified or are 2 division champs compared to 0 at 168

And I’m sure you could go on and on with what the top dogs at MW have achieved compared to the top dogs at 168

The MW division sh.its all over 168 and its not even close. I think it’s fair thing to say the top 7 MWs Might have to be considered as the best and most accomplished fighters in almost any division in the sport while 168 has a strong chance being one of if not the worst division as far as what their top 7 have done

And the 168 Top guys are almost all Early in their career but right now they don’t stack up to the guys at MW right now

[Squ□redCircle34]

Of course, none of them could ever hold Ward’s spit bucket let alone skill for skill in the ring!