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Neither of them have a hope in hell of beating him but will be refreshing to see him fight abroad against someone different so Big Baby gets my vote for the novelty factor if nothing else
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You know this place will be full of 'Wilder fought Ortiz in his prime' and 'Joshua is fighting an old man' blah blah blah
Suddenly Wilder will have Szpilka or Washington as the 3rd greatest fighter behind himself and Ortiz and that Joshua is the fifth or sixth best HW.
Classic Wilderworld.Comment
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How many people continued more than five fights after facing Marciano?
What were the chances Marciano ruined his opponent and forced them into early retirement?
Oh but Wilder can't do that...they're so different. Marciano had such good boxing skills? No? Marciano had amazingly weak opposition? Still doesn't work?
Well **** man, what stops Wilder from doing what Rock done did?
Gerald is so great it's hard to believe he got Rock'd?
Wilder hits like a kitten?
What the **** makes it hard to believe?
25, btw. The answer is 25. 25 men were KO'd so badly they were forced into early retirement. That's more than half the dude's record.
Badder ****'s been done before buckaroo.Comment
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I pick Miller but i would have love the option of Ortiz in there, so if its between Whyte (He deserves the fight more) or Miller (He hasn't done enough) then Miller just because it would be another undefeated fight, an american debut for Joshua etcComment
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You seem like the guy who would, so have you got proof that it was damage caused and not just factors like age for Joe Louis (actually coming out of retirement to fight) and other guys with multiple losses just not being good enough to compete anymore? (at a brief glance this is how it appears so I thought I'd ask for some of the history to suggest otherwise)Last edited by Jax teller; 01-29-2019, 10:23 AM.Comment
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Maybe it's just generational but I feel like you are ****ing with me.
Y'all kids don't know who Carmine Vingo is? You don't know what inspired rope-a-dope? Seriously?
I feel like the worst of his adventures were highly publicized and legendary. You don't know why Rocky Marciano is a great one?
Also, there's a whole lot of definition bending that goes on with Marciano so I'm not real sure what qualifies.
Firstly, I did not limit Wilder or Marciano to damage. Demoralization is a form of ruin. I do agree it is centralized around their power, but damage alone is a sometimes. Only Vingo was knocked into a coma if that's what you're looking for.
Washington continues to fight, I don't see him retiring soon and he hasn't said anything about Wilder having hurt him so bad he can't fight anymore. He just keeps losing. Like Martin. You can explain that anyway you like really and there's no way I can tell you you're wrong. When things like that happen on a mans record a couple of times you can chalk it up to anything from bad luck to fixed fights if you like. Opinions are like *******s you know, but, after a series of runs like that, mixed with broken bones, comas, and early retirements, I don't think it's a leap to make the man central to all these careers going south the cause of these careers going south. Especially when he continues to do it to the former champion, the champion, the british and european champions and then the LHW champion. At that point it's kind of ridiculous to claim they were all old or they were all already going south except the man in the coma and the men who had their limbs broken. I feel like it's plain as day what Marciano did even if you don't have 1950s Ring to read. How many times on Marciano's record can you tell yourself he had some kind of unfair advantage outside of the 925ft-lbs he carries in his right?
You mentioned Joe's age as if it negates instead of explains the fact that he got messed up by Marciano and KO'd into retirement. That's a fairly normal KO into retirement situation. I don't know, maybe you need some background? Joe came out of retirement for money because he was desperate. Joe would have liked to make more money and didn't plan on stopping until he got stopped by The Rockness Monster.
However we have a ton of fellas to work with so I'd rather move along than get hung up there.
My next point would be in everyone else's career being around the same age as another fighter and having about half the experience is a bad thing.
Name me a single fighter outside of Marciano whose resume wins get stripped from him not because they were old by their actual age, they were peers in fact, but rather old because they had twice the experience.
Ezzard Charles is a year older than Marciano. Yes he did have a long career before Rocky. Rocky started boxing late in life, all of his peers have a ****in' long career compared to Rocky. Marciano never gets credit from kids for Ezzard because Ezzard was old.
Roland LazStarza and Harry Mathews are never given credit because their records don't have very good names on them until after Marciano and then they became losers. Harry and Roland were men coming up at the same time as Marciano.
So let me ask you bluntly now. If you discredit the guys who were actually old, and you discredit the guys who were not actually old but had a long career prior to Marciano, and you discredit the guys who had a bright career until they met Marciano, who is it you expect to have left over?
So, I'm not sure what you're looking for. You give me criteria and then we'll see if I can't hit it rather then me listing names and you following me with excuses. Like I said, we have a lot of guys to work with. I am confident I can hit any criteria.
Or, you can take a nice long look at Marciano's record and ask yourself how he can be proven in a semantics driven debate where Ezzard Charles is as old as Joe Louis? Archie Moore was no at the height of his career.
So there you go, if you absolutely need told " Marciano hurt me" Vingo and LaStarza are easy and well known. If you need a good win telling you Marciano hurt them you need to define a good win because to me Ezzard, Roland, and Mathews are damn good wins.Comment
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