Who would you rather AJ fight?

[alexguiness]

Since it's down to these two...

It's not down to these two.

It's Whyte at Wembley, and always has been.

Miller is just a name dropped by Hearn to keep his pet Nigerian robot relevant.

[Jax teller]

Maybe it's just generational but I feel like you are ****ing with me.

Y'all kids don't know who Carmine Vingo is? You don't know what inspired rope-a-dope? Seriously?

I feel like the worst of his adventures were highly publicized and legendary. You don't know why Rocky Marciano is a great one?


Also, there's a whole lot of definition bending that goes on with Marciano so I'm not real sure what qualifies.

Firstly, I did not limit Wilder or Marciano to damage. Demoralization is a form of ruin. I do agree it is centralized around their power, but damage alone is a sometimes. Only Vingo was knocked into a coma if that's what you're looking for.

Washington continues to fight, I don't see him retiring soon and he hasn't said anything about Wilder having hurt him so bad he can't fight anymore. He just keeps losing. Like Martin. You can explain that anyway you like really and there's no way I can tell you you're wrong. When things like that happen on a mans record a couple of times you can chalk it up to anything from bad luck to fixed fights if you like. Opinions are like *******s you know, but, after a series of runs like that, mixed with broken bones, comas, and early retirements, I don't think it's a leap to make the man central to all these careers going south the cause of these careers going south. Especially when he continues to do it to the former champion, the champion, the british and european champions and then the LHW champion. At that point it's kind of ridiculous to claim they were all old or they were all already going south except the man in the coma and the men who had their limbs broken. I feel like it's plain as day what Marciano did even if you don't have 1950s Ring to read. How many times on Marciano's record can you tell yourself he had some kind of unfair advantage outside of the 925ft-lbs he carries in his right?

You mentioned Joe's age as if it negates instead of explains the fact that he got messed up by Marciano and KO'd into retirement. That's a fairly normal KO into retirement situation. I don't know, maybe you need some background? Joe came out of retirement for money because he was desperate. Joe would have liked to make more money and didn't plan on stopping until he got stopped by The Rockness Monster.

However we have a ton of fellas to work with so I'd rather move along than get hung up there.

My next point would be in everyone else's career being around the same age as another fighter and having about half the experience is a bad thing.

Name me a single fighter outside of Marciano whose resume wins get stripped from him not because they were old by their actual age, they were peers in fact, but rather old because they had twice the experience.

Ezzard Charles is a year older than Marciano. Yes he did have a long career before Rocky. Rocky started boxing late in life, all of his peers have a ****in' long career compared to Rocky. Marciano never gets credit from kids for Ezzard because Ezzard was old.

Roland LazStarza and Harry Mathews are never given credit because their records don't have very good names on them until after Marciano and then they became losers. Harry and Roland were men coming up at the same time as Marciano.


So let me ask you bluntly now. If you discredit the guys who were actually old, and you discredit the guys who were not actually old but had a long career prior to Marciano, and you discredit the guys who had a bright career until they met Marciano, who is it you expect to have left over?

So, I'm not sure what you're looking for. You give me criteria and then we'll see if I can't hit it rather then me listing names and you following me with excuses. Like I said, we have a lot of guys to work with. I am confident I can hit any criteria.

Or, you can take a nice long look at Marciano's record and ask yourself how he can be proven in a semantics driven debate where Ezzard Charles is as old as Joe Louis? Archie Moore was no at the height of his career.


So there you go, if you absolutely need told " Marciano hurt me" Vingo and LaStarza are easy and well known. If you need a good win telling you Marciano hurt them you need to define a good win because to me Ezzard, Roland, and Mathews are damn good wins.

I wasn't aiming to discredit the wins or his power just questioning more what you said and whether it was the power that ruined fighters or if the time was right for them to quit, like I said Joe Louis was previously retired to fighting Rocky so a defeat from anyone could have sent him back into retirement forever, obviously well never know that but that's a possibility is all I'm saying. Did he ruin them or make them realise it's time to give up, I don't think that's the same thing?

[Eff Pandas]

I couldn't care where they fight but of the two I prefer Big Baby. We've already seen Joshua vs Whyte & personally I see Big Baby's style being a problem if the fight goes deep.

I get it from those that say Whyte doe. He gave Joshua a challenge the first time around & I don't see much to argue against with him being the most deserving contender for a title shot right now. But w/e. I don't see a rematch being any different except Whyte gets KO'd quicker most likely.

[Marchegiano]

I wasn't aiming to discredit the wins or his power just questioning more what you said and whether it was the power that ruined fighters or if the time was right for them to quit, like I said Joe Louis was previously retired to fighting Rocky so a defeat from anyone could have sent him back into retirement forever, obviously well never know that but that's a possibility is all I'm saying. Did he ruin them or make them realise it's time to give up, I don't think that's the same thing?

I am struggling to understand the separation you're making. Marciano knocking you out being a catalyst to you realizing you need to retire is being knocked into retirement by Marciano.

There aren't actually that many old men on Marciano's record. I thought you meant resume wins but if you just mean within that 25 I spoke of then the answer is a pretty direct if you ask me.

Harry Haft, Pete Louthis, Pat Richards, Phil Muscato, Carmine Vingo, Gino Buonvino, Johnny Shkor, Harold Mitchell, Willis Applegate, Bernie Reynolds, and Don ****ell were all young wins whose ages are easy to lookup and verify.

Joe Louis and Walcott were old, Lee Savold was old, the other old guys on his record didn't actually retire anytime near fighting Marciano. Moore stayed around long enough to fight Ali and Ezzard I wouldn't even call old myself but it doesn't matter because he stayed around another five years 20+ fights.

No matter how I try I can't fill out the left over 14 with old guys unless you take all the early bums, debuts and guys with less than 10 fights on their record and such, and call them all old because their ages are unknown or unverified.

I think it's 13 for his direct to retirement, no fights after the Marciano fight, stat.

I don't think he fought 13 old guys period. Regardless of when they retired. Even if I count Ezzard, that's Ezzard, Archie, Joe, Joe, and Lee.

[STREET CLEANER]

Whyte has earned his shot but I rather watch him against Miller. Something different. Whyte still fights like he is drunk

[Kezzer]

For Joshua’s career he probably doesn’t need to revisit whyte, but he will have to die to mandatories later in the year anyway.

Therefore although I would prefer big baby there are a couple of factors which swing my to Whyte. Firstly I would actually prefer him to fight three times this year.

could he fight Whyte and then Miller in the summer leaving a slot late in the year for a fury/wilder/Usyk fight end of year? If so that would be my preferred option assuming wilder/fury is off the table