Is Wilder the most unique HW in history?

[NChristo]

Take a peek at Wilder's footwork. I know you want to call it **** but before we go comparing him to guys with excellent classic points boxing footwork let's just compare him to Marciano for a second.

Notice in your first few gifs how Wilder lunges with a Marciano-like left and misses wildly similarly to how Marciano used to?

Well watch Marciano throw his left hook. It isn't often he'll throw a punch like that without crossing his feet when he steps and/or fully leaping. Mostly because he was short but as you probably know this isn't proper boxing footwork. It is usually seen as a very basic mistake.

When you move forward you move your lead foot first and bring the back up after. When you move left you step with your left foot first, so on. You do not cross step in boxing unless you are very far away or very quick and mean to get very far away because the moment you do your balance is ****.

Wilder not only does this cross stepping less often but when he does try to do it he fails...see your third gif.

Notice how in all these, gifs 1, 2, and 3, Wilder punches first then moves his foot with the momentum after like the punch is dragging him along for the ride? Notice how Marciano steps first and brings his punch along for the ride with him to finish it after? The difference isn't just because of body type but also fundamental theory. Marciano puts absolutely everything into his big punches. He never gives up any form of offensive benefit for the benefit of defense. Wilder does actually. He's not stepping first because he likes to use his his height and speed to run away. Where Marciano would be able to successfully launch himself Wilder slips and falls because his feet are not ready for those style punches. Wilder's feet are ready to abandon his big punches at anytime until he throws his punches and his feet get dragged along with them.

Marciano is the more pure puncher, his punching technique is perfect it's why his record is perfect. His boxing technique by consequence is pretty **** to none existent.

Wilder moves the way he does because of poor training and terrible footwork, imagine a clockface at your feet, your feet should be pointing towards 2:10 not 3:00 / a right angle, it's virtually impossible to move effectively with your feet in that position and that's the reason for him slipping, not because
"Wilder's feet are ready to abandon his big punches"
He just has incredibly poor fundamentals, it's also why he has incredibley poor balance, get into stance and have your feet at 2:10 then have someone push you, you will not move, now put your feet in the 3:00 and have someone push you, you'll fall backwards or stumble.

Marciano atleast knew how to effectively move in with his footwork more than Wilder and had some kind of defense moving forward, Wilder's footwork is of someone that has never boxed before.

[Marchegiano]

Wilder moves the way he does because of poor training and terrible footwork, imagine a clockface at your feet, your feet should be pointing towards 2:10 not 3:00 / a right angle, it's virtually impossible to move effectively with your feet in that position and that's the reason for him slipping, not because
"Wilder's feet are ready to abandon his big punches"
He just has incredibly poor fundamentals, it's also why he has incredibley poor balance, get into stance and have your feet at 2:10 then have someone push you, you will not move, now put your feet in the 3:00 and have someone push you, you'll fall backwards or stumble.

Marciano atleast knew how to effectively move in with his footwork more than Wilder and had some kind of defense moving forward, Wilder's footwork is of someone that has never boxed before.

Yeah, crazy how you can see the timing and momentum drag him along and his foot not be where it would need to be to keep stable, but sure, it's the angle his toes point in that cause him to be unable to step then punch....that makes just a ton of sense.

He is stepping. His angle didn't stop him from stepping. He is stepping after the momentum though and unable to catch himself before he falls. Even when he does catch himself he falls quite a lot more than a pure boxer or puncher would....because his toes being pointed in the wrong direction? Hmm. Y'all point your toes about and see if it makes a difference if you punch first or after you move your foot. See if you can't step before you punch because your toes are pointed in a direction. C'mon son.

[NChristo]

Yeah, crazy how you can see the timing and momentum drag him along and his foot not be where it would need to be to keep stable, but sure, it's the angle his toes point in that cause him to be unable to step then punch....that makes just a ton of sense.

He is stepping. His angle didn't stop him from stepping. He is stepping after the momentum though and unable to catch himself before he falls. Even when he does catch himself he falls quite a lot more than a pure boxer or puncher would....because his toes being pointed in the wrong direction? Hmm. Y'all point your toes about and see if it makes a difference if you punch first or after you move your foot. See if you can't step before you punch because your toes are pointed in a direction. C'mon son.

Clearly never spent a day in the gym and you're laughing at me ?, if you're such a student of the sport go and analyze any top boxers and tell me what position their feet are facing then come back to me, it wasn't a question I'm telling you that you are off balance if you're feet are in that position. In your gif you show Wilder throwing himself completely off balance and George Foreman throwing a wide punch then going back into stance but he doesn't throw himself completely off balance because of his footwork.

It's so much more difficult to move that way.

It's the very very basics of boxing.

Put your feet at a right angle and tell me you can move to your left or right and that you're as in balance as you would be if you actually knew your fundamentals.

[koolkc107]

I realize this is just a let's make fun of Wilder thread but I'm still gonna ramble about technique and maybe some history too.

I do honestly believe in a pure boxing match where there is no power or damage just art and grace Deontay Wilder would box Rocky Marciano's ears off even if they were the same size.

Marciano is your purest puncher in history not Deontay Wilder.

Take a peek at Wilder's footwork. I know you want to call it **** but before we go comparing him to guys with excellent classic points boxing footwork let's just compare him to Marciano for a second.

Notice in your first few gifs how Wilder lunges with a Marciano-like left and misses wildly similarly to how Marciano used to?

Well watch Marciano throw his left hook. It isn't often he'll throw a punch like that without crossing his feet when he steps and/or fully leaping. Mostly because he was short but as you probably know this isn't proper boxing footwork. It is usually seen as a very basic mistake.

When you move forward you move your lead foot first and bring the back up after. When you move left you step with your left foot first, so on. You do not cross step in boxing unless you are very far away or very quick and mean to get very far away because the moment you do your balance is ****.

Wilder not only does this cross stepping less often but when he does try to do it he fails...see your third gif.

Notice how in all these, gifs 1, 2, and 3, Wilder punches first then moves his foot with the momentum after like the punch is dragging him along for the ride? Notice how Marciano steps first and brings his punch along for the ride with him to finish it after? The difference isn't just because of body type but also fundamental theory. Marciano puts absolutely everything into his big punches. He never gives up any form of offensive benefit for the benefit of defense. Wilder does actually. He's not stepping first because he likes to use his his height and speed to run away. Where Marciano would be able to successfully launch himself Wilder slips and falls because his feet are not ready for those style punches. Wilder's feet are ready to abandon his big punches at anytime until he throws his punches and his feet get dragged along with them.

Marciano is the more pure puncher, his punching technique is perfect it's why his record is perfect. His boxing technique by consequence is pretty **** to none existent.

I mean have you seen Marciano jab? It's not pretty but Marciano's Walcott 1 KO is a work of art.

Wilder shuffles into range like any other boxer in history. Look at Foreman, look at Frazier, Shavers, Tyson, etc other hard hitters. They're all going to shuffle into range regardless of body type. Marciano is going to cross step and/or leap into it with a heavy strike that leaves him crazy open to counter if you can successfully predict him.

It takes a real gladiator to do it and that's what Marciano was, a Spartan. He looks like a sword and shield toting hoplite when he fights because he is. I don't mean that hyperbolically, I mean Sparta invented the training and Marciano fits the bill for what Philostratus describes much more than he does any model of a boxer even when compared to other small or light in weight heavy punchers.

Where the feet go the hands follow ya know? This kind of minor difference in footwork presents a major difference in skill set and formula. Wilder's got a much nicer jab than Marciano and has a defense first attitude toward footwork that Marciano lacks.

Obviously I'm a fan of them both and don't really see anything you highlighted as a deficit but I definitely see one as more of a boxer than the other. There's very little boxer in either but less in Marciano than Wilder.

I am glad somebody else finally made this comparison.

Yes, they are different physically and therefore have different approaches in the ring.

But they DO share some important things, things that make it more than just a passing side by side.

They both are usually not as skilled as their opponent.

They both enter the ring in great condition.

They both have great power that they carry late into a fight.

They both have very good chins, get hit yet stay dangerous.

They both have an ability to will themselves to perform.

Good post.

[redmish]

Well he has:

Elite height
Elite reach
Elite power
Elite hand speed (for the HW division)
Elite stamina (for the HW division) (carries his power from first bell to last)
Elite resilience (the mental toughness to weather storms and comeback)

You package all of that together and you have one tough SOB regardless of perceived lack of boxing skill (which he does have, but not as much as Fury).

Elite height? Elite reach? What are you talking about? You can't call these things elite. Was valuev elite? What about Ustinov?

[removed]

Yeah he's unique and very dangerous. Just because Fury beat him doesn't mean he'll suddenly lose to other guys, nobody else in the division has Fury's attributes and skillset.

[BWC]

LOL yea he's unique as f#ck like that. I definitely can't think of a guy who's as unskilled, but effective due to his power or anything close to that on the level he's made it at. When history is written on Wilder he's gonna be seen as a massive overachiever.

Rocky Marciano was a technical nightmare, and yet was such a brutal killer he destroyed everyone.

If you watch a lot of the "great" heavyweights, they weren't textbook boxers by any means. Ali fought with his hands down 99% of the time. He could do that because he's Muhammad freaking Ali. Frazier had short arms so he would just barrel in taking punishment before unleashing hell with the left hook.

Dempsey just sort of bulldogged people.

You wouldn't train any newbie to fight like any of those guys. But that's what beautiful about boxing. You learn 3-4 basic punches and then you get to decide which style works for you given your physical and mental profile. Not everyone can or should fight the same way. Wilder's greatest asset happens to be his massive power. Fury's is his size and feet for such a big guy. He doesn't have Wilder's concussive power, so he knows he has to win on the cards a lot of the time.

Wilder doesn't need to be SRR out therem he just needs to put himself in a position to land the big one and he's going to win. Every time.

[BWC]

Yeah, crazy how you can see the timing and momentum drag him along and his foot not be where it would need to be to keep stable, but sure, it's the angle his toes point in that cause him to be unable to step then punch....that makes just a ton of sense.

He is stepping. His angle didn't stop him from stepping. He is stepping after the momentum though and unable to catch himself before he falls. Even when he does catch himself he falls quite a lot more than a pure boxer or puncher would....because his toes being pointed in the wrong direction? Hmm. Y'all point your toes about and see if it makes a difference if you punch first or after you move your foot. See if you can't step before you punch because your toes are pointed in a direction. C'mon son.

LOL I wrote that Marciano was a technical nightmare before I read your post. Great breakdown man..

A video of Marciano. SO untechnical yet brutal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Qv4_oKx6U

[BWC]

Wilder would never make it in Olympic Tae Kwan Do points fighting. But he's a professional boxer. As long as he knock people the eff out he's going to win a ton of fights..

[Eff Pandas]

Rocky Marciano was a technical nightmare, and yet was such a brutal killer he destroyed everyone.

If you watch a lot of the "great" heavyweights, they weren't textbook boxers by any means. Ali fought with his hands down 99% of the time. He could do that because he's Muhammad freaking Ali. Frazier had short arms so he would just barrel in taking punishment before unleashing hell with the left hook.

Dempsey just sort of bulldogged people.

You wouldn't train any newbie to fight like any of those guys. But that's what beautiful about boxing. You learn 3-4 basic punches and then you get to decide which style works for you given your physical and mental profile. Not everyone can or should fight the same way. Wilder's greatest asset happens to be his massive power. Fury's is his size and feet for such a big guy. He doesn't have Wilder's concussive power, so he knows he has to win on the cards a lot of the time.

Wilder doesn't need to be SRR out therem he just needs to put himself in a position to land the big one and he's going to win. Every time.

Sure on the bolded remark, but cmon Wilder is far less skilled then the vast majority of guys who've held this poisition in reent times. Rocky looks like prime SRR compared to Wilder.