Usyk's management contacted by Andre Ward.

[billeau2]

What about Wards referees? What do you think about Reiss in the Kessler fight and Weeks in the Kovalev fight? Fair and impartial?


To me those two performances are some of the worst examples of hometown referees in recent memory.

Ok rewatched the Kessler fight. As I remember and this is kind of relevant, Ward dominated Kessler from beginning to end. The first part of the fight, lets say to round 5 bernstein himself said "Ward" was getting away with some holding, BUT later in the fight, around the 7th round Bernstein said "Now Kessler was holding excessively."

What I saw up until the later rounds was mutual holding. The difference was that Ward was fighting inside and Kessler was not. When Ward's hand is behind Kessler's back, his hand is tied up as well as Kessler's hand is tied up. At that point the ref can ask them to fight out, and many times Kessler and Ward did fight out of the clinch... But keep in mind each guy has an arm neutralized. Its not like Ward was holding Kessler's arm and hitting him.

The 9th and 10th round got a bit ugly. Heads clashed because Ward was coming forward and Kessler was not backing up. The 10nth round Ward did in fact head butt in one time...I grant you that incident.

I don't think that one time...assuming it was deliberate, makes for a pattern of dirty fighting. But yes, Ward should have been deducted for that time.

Hope that helps. Head butts are an occupational hazard. LOL.

[Simurgh]

Huge props to Ward if this is true. However, he would have a very slim chance in this one. Usyk is just as skillful, if not more, and has some 20-30lbs on Ward.

[BattlingNelson]

Ok rewatched the Kessler fight. As I remember and this is kind of relevant, Ward dominated Kessler from beginning to end. The first part of the fight, lets say to round 5 bernstein himself said "Ward" was getting away with some holding, BUT later in the fight, around the 7th round Bernstein said "Now Kessler was holding excessively."

What I saw up until the later rounds was mutual holding. The difference was that Ward was fighting inside and Kessler was not. When Ward's hand is behind Kessler's back, his hand is tied up as well as Kessler's hand is tied up. At that point the ref can ask them to fight out, and many times Kessler and Ward did fight out of the clinch... But keep in mind each guy has an arm neutralized. Its not like Ward was holding Kessler's arm and hitting him.

The 9th and 10th round got a bit ugly. Heads clashed because Ward was coming forward and Kessler was not backing up. The 10nth round Ward did in fact head butt in one time...I grant you that incident.

I don't think that one time...assuming it was deliberate, makes for a pattern of dirty fighting. But yes, Ward should have been deducted for that time.

Hope that helps. Head butts are an occupational hazard. LOL.

Well we must have seen different fights. I saw a Ward continuosly leading with the head (a foul). Notice how Kessler hurts Ward in round 2, and Ward immidiately swings his head towards Kessler's face just missing by a fraction.

Furthermore Ward initiated practically all the clinches and the ref didn't even give him a caution. What makes this so blatantly a homer ref, is that it was Kessler who was given a warning for holding! It's unreal.

Another observation, is that Ward, according to the presenters (as I recall it), landed no less than 5 headbutts, and every single one of those were deemed unintentional (!) by the homer ref.

The fight would have had a completely different pattern, had the ref cautioned Ward about the head from round 2.

Of course Ward always knew he had the officials on his side and that that wouldn't be the case had he fought another top fighter in his back yard. There's a reason why fighters like Ward and Sven Ottke never fought away from home.

That's why I would give Ward massive and deserved props if he chose to fight Usyk in Kiev.

[soul_survivor]

Just watched an interview where Usyks manager gave an interview in Russian. He said they will most likely fight the winner of Whyte vs Chisora but they recently were contacted by Andre Ward who might move up to cruiserweight to challenge Usyk

Source?

Don't post stuff like this without one.

[billeau2]

Well we must have seen different fights. I saw a Ward continuosly leading with the head (a foul). Notice how Kessler hurts Ward in round 2, and Ward immidiately swings his head towards Kessler's face just missing by a fraction.

Furthermore Ward initiated practically all the clinches and the ref didn't even give him a caution. What makes this so blatantly a homer ref, is that it was Kessler who was given a warning for holding! It's unreal.

Another observation, is that Ward, according to the presenters (as I recall it), landed no less than 5 headbutts, and every single one of those were deemed unintentional (!) by the homer ref.

The fight would have had a completely different pattern, had the ref cautioned Ward about the head from round 2.

Of course Ward always knew he had the officials on his side and that that wouldn't be the case had he fought another top fighter in his back yard. There's a reason why fighters like Ward and Sven Ottke never fought away from home.

That's why I would give Ward massive and deserved props if he chose to fight Usyk in Kiev.

Well for what it's worth... Bernstein, who is University regarded as credible... Did initially say that Ward was getting away with clinching. But he later said that now Kessler was doing the clinching. As far as the head butts I think leading with the head, as horrible as it is, is a way that some guys fight.

This way induces a potential for headbutts. And as far as Ward fighting at home... I don't know if that's a stretch... Oakland is the size of Vegas, give or take a couple of hundred thousand, despite a really ****y Airport... It has all the accommodations for professional fight that Vegas does.

Personally I don't see why fights have to all happen in Vegas. I think it would be good for boxing if more Fighters encouraged Hometown support. Now... If you're from some small town in Alabama, that could be a problem LOL, but there's no reason that Oakland can not accommodate what Vegas can, and you given people work and recognition in an area where it's desperately needed.

But that's at the end of the day... And I'm certainly willing to concede that they may have been some hijinks that I didn't see in this fight. It's hard for me to determine whether something is deliberate or not, I dunno the difference between coming in with your hands covering your head and coming in leading with your head... it's something that's hard for me to distinguish and maybe I just am not seeing it.

There's a reason why I don't score fights LOL I don't trust my capacity in certain respects. I can tell you the general tenure of a fight... Can't necessarily tell you how many punches are determining that.

[KillaMane26]

If Ward wins in a ugly fight will yall give that man credit. ?

[BattlingNelson]

Well for what it's worth... Bernstein, who is University regarded as credible... Did initially say that Ward was getting away with clinching. But he later said that now Kessler was doing the clinching. As far as the head butts I think leading with the head, as horrible as it is, is a way that some guys fight.

And it’s illegal. And the ref didn’t call it.

This way induces a potential for headbutts.

Which is also illegal and the ref didn’t call them.

And as far as Ward fighting at home... I don't know if that's a stretch... Oakland is the size of Vegas, give or take a couple of hundred thousand, despite a really ****y Airport... It has all the accommodations for professional fight that Vegas does.

Personally I don't see why fights have to all happen in Vegas. I think it would be good for boxing if more Fighters encouraged Hometown support. Now... If you're from some small town in Alabama, that could be a problem LOL, but there's no reason that Oakland can not accommodate what Vegas can, and you given people work and recognition in an area where it's desperately needed.

I respectfully think you are missing the point entirely. Kessler, as an example, had to break up camp, travel 9 time zones to a different country, different surroundings, food, camp, language etc. Add to that it’s under a hostile promotor, biased officials, crowd and commission and so on.

Big deal.

But that's at the end of the day... And I'm certainly willing to concede that they may have been some hijinks that I didn't see in this fight. It's hard for me to determine whether something is deliberate or not, I dunno the difference between coming in with your hands covering your head and coming in leading with your head... it's something that's hard for me to distinguish and maybe I just am not seeing it.

Leading with the head is fairly easy to see and take my word for it: It’s illegal.

There's a reason why I don't score fights LOL I don't trust my capacity in certain respects. I can tell you the general tenure of a fight... Can't necessarily tell you how many punches are determining that.

It’s not really about the scoring in this fight. You would have to check the first Kovalev fight to address that, it’s about a home town referee, and this is a prototypical example of such.

[Butt stuff]

It would be interesting to see Ward fight a bigger/stronger fighter than him, but for Usyk to pull out a win he'd have fight a stinker of a fight – not sure I want to see that...

[KingHippo]

Nobody should be surprised by this. That's what Andre Ward does.

[KingHippo]

If Ward wins in a ugly fight will yall give that man credit. ?

Stop asking people to give Ward any credit. It'll never happen.

It would be interesting to see Ward fight a bigger/stronger fighter than him, but for Usyk to pull out a win he'd have fight a stinker of a fight – not sure I want to see that...

Are you implying he never did???