The PBC strategy is suicidal

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  • Eff Pandas
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    #11
    Idk if his strategy is suicidal. I'm not sure what it is with these 3 PPV's in the first 3 months of this new deal.

    If its legit a TVKO type strategy of low cost PPV's ($50 or under) I don't see a real upside with it long term & its not sustainable with customers long term I wouldn't think. The UFC has taken a TVKO-like approach with PPV's that seems to be working out for them, but they seem to have a reverse payment model where the UFC is taking in more of the revenue then the fighters. The UFC has also created an event feel more than most PPV boxing has with a competitive nature to all the events of their PPV's that is strong enough that a main fighter can fall out of an event & a last minute opponent can be thrown in or a whole new main event can be established & still selling 200k-300k+ PPV's. If the PBC is doing PPV's like that I think they'd need to average at least a number around that of the UFC like 200k-300k+ buy range which is giving the boxing side of the revenue approx. $5M-$7.5M+ (assuming a $50 PPV price, which could be a low number) to split up which is covering most fights.

    It could also be that although we got 3 PPV's in the first 3 months that this is an anomaly for PBC & there will only be 3 PPV's for this 2018-2019 season so it looks worse than it is.

    But I'm super curious what the strategy is going to be here exactly cuz this did not seem to be the PBC goal in the beginning, but I've theorized the PBC strategy has pivoted with all these lawsuits & them getting a regular TV deal now & also with DAZN & ESPN+ coming into the landscape.

    I won't act like any strategy is superior in this sphere cuz its just as easy that the fans aren't ready for streaming boxing as fans aren't ready to pay for more PPV boxing. Its all up in the air still in my eyes, but my money would be on DAZN winning this war eventually. But its not like I've never been wrong like most of the non-trolls here.

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    • Randall Cunning
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      #12
      Originally posted by Eff Pandas
      Idk if his strategy is suicidal. I'm not sure what it is with these 3 PPV's in the first 3 months of this new deal.

      If its legit a TVKO type strategy of low cost PPV's ($50 or under) I don't see a real upside with it long term & its not sustainable with customers long term I wouldn't think. The UFC has taken a TVKO-like approach with PPV's that seems to be working out for them, but they seem to have a reverse payment model where the UFC is taking in more of the revenue then the fighters. The UFC has also created an event feel more than most PPV boxing has with a competitive nature to all the events of their PPV's that is strong enough that a main fighter can fall out of an event & a last minute opponent can be thrown in or a whole new main event can be established & still selling 200k-300k+ PPV's. If the PBC is doing PPV's like that I think they'd need to average at least a number around that of the UFC like 200k-300k+ buy range which is giving the boxing side of the revenue approx. $5M-$7.5M+ (assuming a $50 PPV price, which could be a low number) to split up which is covering most fights.

      It could also be that although we got 3 PPV's in the first 3 months that this is an anomaly for PBC & there will only be 3 PPV's for this 2018-2019 season so it looks worse than it is.

      But I'm super curious what the strategy is going to be here exactly cuz this did not seem to be the PBC goal in the beginning, but I've theorized the PBC strategy has pivoted with all these lawsuits & them getting a regular TV deal now & also with DAZN & ESPN+ coming into the landscape.

      I won't act like any strategy is superior in this sphere cuz its just as easy that the fans aren't ready for streaming boxing as fans aren't ready to pay for more PPV boxing. Its all up in the air still in my eyes, but my money would be on DAZN winning this war eventually. But its not like I've never been wrong like most of the non-trolls here.
      You can work out the math of it.Off PPV the announcements 50 cards $120mil, about $2.2mil a card. Everything goes PPV. GBP and Matchroom are guaranteed double/triple the purses with their deals that the PBC deals make.

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      • Stinger1
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        #13
        PPV is a last throw of the dice as it is the only way they can keep their top guys. The Sho and Fox budgets aren't enough so they either box some of the stars on PPV or have to let them leave. Not sure what else you would have them do, this is the only move they have.

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        • The Big Dunn
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          #14
          Originally posted by Randall Cunning
          How the hell does this work? All of the proven PPV draws are now behind a $10 subscription. Its madness that you combat this with all your best guys going behind a PPV wall, not one of them proven to be able to carry it. Someone explain to me how this works WBC WBA IBF, get in here i havent blocked you. I want you to tell m3 how this **** works, a load of PPVs noone even asked for
          I agree the PPV model will die if they continue to price fights to high and don't give much for the money. Other than the cross promotional fight-Wilder/AJ, Loma/Mikey , Spence/Crawford, I can't see why you'd need PPV.

          However, if Haymon makes very strong cards and brings the price way down, it could work. You'd have to limit it to 3 cards a year and you'd have to use Fox to showcase both guys before hand.

          Just keep it at around $39.99 and you'd essentially be paying the same for the PPV as you would a year of DAZN.

          NO PPV's might be good for us as fans.

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          • Eff Pandas
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            #15
            Originally posted by Randall Cunning
            You can work out the math of it.Off PPV the announcements 50 cards $120mil, about $2.2mil a card. Everything goes PPV. GBP and Matchroom are guaranteed double/triple the purses with their deals that the PBC deals make.
            Eddie certainly isn't looking like he's spending money like he has 2x or 3x the amount PBC has per show ($4.4M-$6.6M).

            And we've yet to see what GBP is doing on DAZN.

            Randomly has there been any purse details released for any of these Dazn US guys Eddie picked up? I'm curious how much Tevin &/or Andrade are getting.

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            • Eff Pandas
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              #16
              Originally posted by The Big Dunn
              I agree the PPV model will die if they continue to price fights to high and don't give much for the money. Other than the cross promotional fight-Wilder/AJ, Loma/Mikey , Spence/Crawford, I can't see why you'd need PPV.
              To maximize the revenue of a fight. If Spence vs Mikey happens on regular TV maybe they are making $2M a piece. If they go to PPV & do at least 133k buys at $60 they are making the same $, give or take cuz obviously there is more slices of the pie being cut up & the undercard, but you get my overall point. So if they think they can do >133k then they are making more money. There is risk, but there is upside for all parties to.

              But thats why you do a PPV.

              NO PPV's might be good for us as fans.
              Obviously agree with this, but good luck telling boxing's power brokers to not attempt to make more money if they can make money.

              PPV will be around as long as its profitable & there aren't many fights losing money these days as I understand it. Certainly if you guarantee the minimum for your lowest expectations & only provide an upside as buys increase it'll always make sense to do on some level.

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              • The Big Dunn
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                #17
                Originally posted by Eff Pandas
                To maximize the revenue of a fight. If Spence vs Mikey happens on regular TV maybe they are making $2M a piece. If they go to PPV & do at least 133k buys at $60 they are making the same $, give or take cuz obviously there is more slices of the pie being cut up & the undercard, but you get my overall point. So if they think they can do >133k then they are making more money. There is risk, but there is upside for all parties to.

                But thats why you do a PPV.



                Obviously agree with this, but good luck telling boxing's power brokers to not attempt to make more money if they can make money.

                PPV will be around as long as its profitable & there aren't many fights losing money these days as I understand it. Certainly if you guarantee the minimum for your lowest expectations & only provide an upside as buys increase it'll always make sense to do on some level.
                Good post. I agree with Randall that I can't understand PBC's strategy here. That said, Haymon knows what he is doing and it says something that while other boxing entitites are doing streaming he has decided to go with FreeTV/Cable model.

                He has always allowed fights to stream on SHO so he was slightly ahead of the curve here.

                I just want to see where he is going. The time buys looked to be a failure, but now he has a really strong presence. Let's se if he can get some of the ex HBO people to help him learn how to "build" fighters into stars.

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                • Randall Cunning
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                  #18
                  Originally posted by Eff Pandas
                  Eddie certainly isn't looking like he's spending money like he has 2x or 3x the amount PBC has per show ($4.4M-$6.6M).

                  And we've yet to see what GBP is doing on DAZN.

                  Randomly has there been any purse details released for any of these Dazn US guys Eddie picked up? I'm curious how much Tevin &/or Andrade are getting.
                  PPV is the word every boxer aspires to, they all want to be PPV stars. Hearn reportedly offered Mikey $8 mil, how the **** he make that getting KO'd by Spence.

                  You say the golden word "PPV" to these guys they stay. When noones interested in these fights things start to change.

                  Farmer and Andrade getting over payed for taking the plunge

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                  • Eff Pandas
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                    #19
                    Originally posted by Randall Cunning
                    PPV is the word every boxer aspires to, they all want to be PPV stars. Hearn reportedly offered Mikey $8 mil, how the **** he make that getting KO'd by Spence.
                    $8M a fight or $8M for a 3 fight deal? If he's offering Mikey $8M a fight I think he might be ******ed & certainly not as smart as I think. If its $2.6M a fight for 3 fights I think this Spence PPV could make him more than that & with two other fights he could probably do $8M+ with less risk.

                    You say the golden word "PPV" to these guys they stay. When noones interested in these fights things start to change.
                    I don't think you need THAT much interest is the thing. 174k buys (@$60), approx, is splitting Mikey vs Spence 5.2M for 2.6M each. If they do 250k, which I think is completely within reason to do they are splitting $3.7M. I don't think you or maybe Hearn are understanding how low the bar is with PPV to make nice money. I don't know all the details of the deal that PPV obviously, but just off of my short, rounded up math & basic speculation on this fight you can see how easy it can be to make a lot of money with minimal buys.

                    Farmer and Andrade getting over payed for taking the plunge
                    Have we seen official commission purse numbers doe.

                    I'm sure Tevin & Andrade are making good money I'm just curious how good.

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                    • MasterPlan
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                      #20
                      We are still not sure how all of this will play out. We don't even know if Pac-Broner And Spence-Mikey are PPVs. And if they are, what is the price and what are the dates.

                      We still don't know the price for Wilder-Fury and that fight is 3 weeks out.

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