Comments Thread For: Conte Supports Decision To Deny License To Billy Joe Saunders

[Fists_of_Fury]

Why is this PED pusher still being pushed as some good guy? He's the equivalent to a *****phile giving parenting advice. He should be banned from all sports.

[kafkod]

He signed up for the testing for this fight under strict liability and failed the test therefore he should not be allowed to fight on this occasion. Whether or not he cheated (ie intentionally used the drug in question) is a different matter, as is whether or not he should be banned. The position of the WBO appears to be that they can strip fighters for failing to comply with local regulations.

http://www.wboboxing.com/regulations/



Also this helps to explain their position:

https://www.boxingscene.com/wbo-exec...esting--106450

It generally seems as if they're not in the business of banning boxers, but more in helping uphold the rules of local governing bodies, which again raises the issue of the difference between VADA testing (the WBC, WBA and individual fight contracts by agreement) and WADA (everyone else).

That's interesting, thanks for the links.

Imo, BJS's case for not being stripped rests on whether or not oxilofrine was listed as an ingredient in any of the products or supplements he was using.

The statement from VADA suggests that it wasn't:

"oxilofrine may have resulted from the administration of ephedrine which was also detected but below the decision limit of 11ug/ml. The estimated concentration of ephedrine is 4.6 ug/ml."

Again, just my opinion, but I would say that if BJS can prove he was using a nasal spray which contained ephedrine, but didn't have oxilofrine listed as an ingredient, then he should be off the hook.

He's a fighter, not a chemist. Could he reasonably be expected to know that a legal dose of ephedrine could result in a positive test result for oxilofrine?

I saw this in the article you linked to:

"The WBO stance (on drug testing) is to ensure we don't do anything which is duplication of or conflicting with the host commission. For example, the British Boxing Board of Control (BBBoC) is a host commission which tests with professionalism and a high degree of accuracy."


The WBO have had strong links with the BBBoc ever since they were formed. And the BBBoC have categorically stated that, in their view, BJS is a clean athlete and has done nothing wrong.

The WBO have also had strong links with a certain British promoter since the 1990's, and that promoter is Frank Warren, who promotes BJS.

I remember, back in the day, Warren's fighters seemed to be getting so many shots at WBO titles against beatable opponents that me and my boxing gym mates used to call them, the Warren Boxing Organisation!

My gut feeling is that Warren and the BBBoC will get BJS of the hook and he will be allowed to keep his title. Though he won't have done his case any good at all by abusing the Massachuttes Commission members during a conference call.

[Citizen Koba]

I know that it was banned, above a certain limit, and I just checked it's current status - unbanned in 2004, and expected to be banned again last year.

Whether it actually was banned again last year, I don't know yet. Here's a link to the article I just read.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-s...52d15839aa51b6

Ha. well if WADA are serious about honouring their own commitments they damn well should ban it, but I can only imagine the fallout would be spectacular... it would take considerable political courage to push that one through I think.

[Citizen Koba]

That's interesting, thanks for the links.

Imo, BJS's case for not being stripped rests on whether or not oxilofrine was listed as an ingredient in any of the products or supplements he was using.

The statement from VADA suggests that it wasn't:

"oxilofrine may have resulted from the administration of ephedrine which was also detected but below the decision limit of 11ug/ml. The estimated concentration of ephedrine is 4.6 ug/ml."

Again, just my opinion, but I would say that if BJS can prove he was using a nasal spray which contained ephedrine, but didn't have oxilofrine listed as an ingredient, then he should be off the hook.

He's a fighter, not a chemist. Could he reasonably be expected to know that a legal dose of ephedrine could result in a positive test result for oxilofrine?

I saw this in the article you linked to:

"The WBO stance (on drug testing) is to ensure we don't do anything which is duplication of or conflicting with the host commission. For example, the British Boxing Board of Control (BBBoC) is a host commission which tests with professionalism and a high degree of accuracy."


The WBO have had strong links with the BBBoc ever since they were formed. And the BBBoC have categorically stated that, in their view, BJS is a clean athlete and has done nothing wrong.

The WBO have also had strong links with a certain British promoter since the 1990's, and that promoter is Frank Warren, who promotes BJS.

I remember, back in the day, Warren's fighters seemed to be getting so many shots at WBO titles against beatable opponents that me and my boxing gym mates used to call them, the Warren Boxing Organisation!

My gut feeling is that Warren and the BBBoC will get BJS of the hook and he will be allowed to keep his title. Though he won't have done his case any good at all by abusing the Massachuttes Commission members during a conference call.

In terms of further punishment, no, Saunders broke no rules apart from those stipulated in the fight contract for this particular fight (whether deliberately in inadvertently). As such I think the rules should be fairly clear to interpret. He should not be allowed to fight Andrade under the current contract since he agreed to stict liability. Under their rules the WBO do have the right to strip since his actions led to the fight being cancelled, though they may choose not to since intent is debatable. Beyond that Saunders should almost certainly be allowed to fight on under the letter of the rules, but I suspect he will struggle greatly getting a license to fight anywhere in the US in future following his outburst.

[kafkod]

In terms of further punishment, no, Saunders broke no rules apart from those stipulated in the fight contract for this particular fight (whether deliberately in inadvertently). As such I think the rules should be fairly clear to interpret. He should not be allowed to fight Andrade under the current contract since he agreed to stict liability. Under their rules the WBO do have the right to strip since his actions led to the fight being cancelled, though they may choose not to since intent is debatable. Beyond that Saunders should almost certainly be allowed to fight on under the letter of the rules, but I suspect he will struggle greatly getting a license to fight anywhere in the US in future following his outburst.

BJS could be stripped of his title for that alone .. bringing the sport and the WBO title into disrepute. It was a really dumb act on his part, but only one of many, sadly.

[maracho]

Link?

VADA is just an intermediary contractor so probably no power to ban anyone except from their own program. I would like to know why the Massachusetts Commission came to use part of Andrade's team to do the testing

Oxilofrine is only banned during competition because its a temporary PED

Clenbuterol on the other hand is a very long lasting PED

Hope that helps

That said, team Andrade must be looking for an excuse to avoid Saunders. That or yearning to put undue pre-fight stress upon him

[Citizen Koba]

BJS could be stripped of his title for that alone .. bringing the sport and the WBO title into disrepute. It was a really dumb act on his part, but only one of many, sadly.

No doubt. Dumb as a bunch of rocks and IMO a pretty de****able human being to boot. It shouldn't be allowed to have any bearing on how the rules vis-a-vis his drug tests are applied though.

I've got to say I won't be disappointed to see the back of Saunders because he's an absolute ****, but he's also a very talented fighter and I would have liked to see just how far those skills could take him.

[kafkod]

No doubt. Dumb as a bunch of rocks and IMO a pretty de****able human being to boot. It shouldn't be allowed to have any bearing on how the rules vis-a-vis his drug tests are applied though.

I've got to say I won't be disappointed to see the back of Saunders because he's an absolute ****, but he's also a very talented fighter and I would have liked to see just how far those skills could take him.

I'm a big fan of BJS in the ring. He's an excellent boxer, like you say, has a lot of heart, and always fights clean.

I don't like the way he behaves outside the ring though, except for some of his trash talk, which can be funny and entertaining.

[Ake-Dawg]

That's interesting, thanks for the links.

Imo, BJS's case for not being stripped rests on whether or not oxilofrine was listed as an ingredient in any of the products or supplements he was using.

The statement from VADA suggests that it wasn't:

"oxilofrine may have resulted from the administration of ephedrine which was also detected but below the decision limit of 11ug/ml. The estimated concentration of ephedrine is 4.6 ug/ml."

Again, just my opinion, but I would say that if BJS can prove he was using a nasal spray which contained ephedrine, but didn't have oxilofrine listed as an ingredient, then he should be off the hook.

He's a fighter, not a chemist. Could he reasonably be expected to know that a legal dose of ephedrine could result in a positive test result for oxilofrine?

I saw this in the article you linked to:

"The WBO stance (on drug testing) is to ensure we don't do anything which is duplication of or conflicting with the host commission. For example, the British Boxing Board of Control (BBBoC) is a host commission which tests with professionalism and a high degree of accuracy."


The WBO have had strong links with the BBBoc ever since they were formed. And the BBBoC have categorically stated that, in their view, BJS is a clean athlete and has done nothing wrong.

The WBO have also had strong links with a certain British promoter since the 1990's, and that promoter is Frank Warren, who promotes BJS.

I remember, back in the day, Warren's fighters seemed to be getting so many shots at WBO titles against beatable opponents that me and my boxing gym mates used to call them, the Warren Boxing Organisation!

My gut feeling is that Warren and the BBBoC will get BJS of the hook and he will be allowed to keep his title. Though he won't have done his case any good at all by abusing the Massachuttes Commission members during a conference call.

That should be easy to prove since he would likely either A) still have the nasal spray bottle; or B) know the brand and store where the nasal spray bottle was purchased and other spray bottles contained the banned drug.

[kafkod]

That should be easy to prove since he would likely either A) still have the nasal spray bottle; or B) know the brand and store where the nasal spray bottle was purchased and other spray bottles contained the banned drug.

Yeah, proving you used a nasal spray containing ephedrine should be a lot easier than proving you ate a taco containing clenbuterol.